Terrorist in Jersey!! and they used paintball

[SCpoloRicker]

You know, a lot of you vocal conservatives seems to complain a whole freakin' lot about "liberal guana", "left-wing talking points", and various other dodges.

/conservative
//understands that statement goes both ways

[Tao]

I never claimed it didn't. At the time most Americans were willing to give up certain freedoms for "more safety". Personally I would guess it just made legitimate certain activites that were probably already ongoing.

As to Guantanamo I would say that, historically, war has allowed for the holding of prisoners captured in relation to the battlefield.

For not being right or left, you seem to be pretty one sided on your questioning :P .

To add in some facts about this:

War has allowed for holding of prisoners, but they have rights granted under the Geneva Convention.

However "terrorist" are granted no rights. I think their home countries can dispute if they are labeled terrorists or not, but I am not sure about that.

[WalkingTarget]

the very fact of the matter is, that they are either being held as war criminals, under which case they must be given certain rights which are currently denied them, or they are extridited criminals, in which case, they would have to have had an extridition hearing in their home country.

as it stands, the Untied States has no legal backing for taking these people as they are just being held in a prison without charges, even under the Geneva Convention, they need to be charged with something to be held such, and if they are Prisoners of War, they have not been informed as such, nor has the rest of the world.


As it stands, the United States just went into a series of countries to take these people and transport them to their own private prison.

To put it bluntly, the United States government is guilty of Kidnapping and Wrongful Detainment of over 3000 individuals. Even more, the 'hearings' are only occuring after a prisoner has admitted guilt to something.

so, it seems that these prisoners are being held indefinitely until they get tired of it and admit guilt to something. I wonder if you would put up with that if it were occuring on your own soil? How would any of you feel to be picked up by the police and thrown in jail, not even allowed your trial until you have admited guilt to some act that you may or may not have commited?


again, it's hard not to come to this conclusion, as that is what has and is happening right now, and there is no way to 'slant' the fact that this is occuring;

[Aggravated Assault]

Two things.

Let me help clairify (in bold) what you were trying to say earlier...

I just look at the evidence presented to me by other biased sources that seem to back up my way of thinking and make my judgements based on that; the nice thing about this way of thinking is that I can claim it as fact and say they have no leaning to any particular party or viewpoint, they are truely unbiased. Because I saw it on the internets

And a comment....

a good place to start is the BBC and other such international news agencies.

[Southpaw]

WalkingTarget the fact of the matter is they are NOT as war criminals but unlawful combatants. These people are NOT POW's I would suggest looking up what that means.

It is arguable that no european country could defend itself from a direct attack. You see you can spend all the money you want of feel good programs if you know your big brother will come and bail you out. Do you think we would be able to win a war like WWII today? What do you think would happen if we lost over 8,000 soldiers in one day?

[WalkingTarget]

WalkingTarget the fact of the matter is they are NOT as war criminals but unlawful combatants. These people are NOT POW's I would suggest looking up what that means.

It is arguable that no european country could defend itself from a direct attack. You see you can spend all the money you want of feel good programs if you know your big brother will come and bail you out. Do you think we would be able to win a war like WWII today? What do you think would happen if we lost over 8,000 soldiers in one day?

Unlawful Combatants

huh.

Well, in such a case they should be charged as such, but the fact of the matter is, most of the people rotting there were never involved in any combat, they were just kidnapped because they were *suspected* of terrorist activities.

And a PoW is defined as personel belinging to a military organization of a opposing force, weather or not involved in actual combat.

Get this through your heads, there are people in that prison who were picked up because your government suspected them of terrorist activities. they have not been charged because in many cases, there is NOTHING to charge them with.

the thing people are having a hard time seeing here is that the US government is NOT RIGHT.

In bold so people actually read it...

The United States Military is holding over 3000 people without charge in a private prison facility, violating both Human Rights and those gaurenteed by the Geneva Convention.


it is as simple as this, The United States Government CANNOT LEGALLY CHARGE ANY OF THESE PEOPLE. They lack the jurisdiction as they are NOT an international court body

and once more...

Most of the people in the Guantanamo Bay Prison Facility have been taken from their home countries without due process

Open your eyes! your government is commiting acts of terrorism!

[Lohman446]

the very fact of the matter is, that they are either being held as war criminals, under which case they must be given certain rights which are currently denied them, or they are extridited criminals, in which case, they would have to have had an extridition hearing in their home country.

as it stands, the Untied States has no legal backing for taking these people as they are just being held in a prison without charges, even under the Geneva Convention, they need to be charged with something to be held such, and if they are Prisoners of War, they have not been informed as such, nor has the rest of the world.


As it stands, the United States just went into a series of countries to take these people and transport them to their own private prison.

To put it bluntly, the United States government is guilty of Kidnapping and Wrongful Detainment of over 3000 individuals. Even more, the 'hearings' are only occuring after a prisoner has admitted guilt to something.

so, it seems that these prisoners are being held indefinitely until they get tired of it and admit guilt to something. I wonder if you would put up with that if it were occuring on your own soil? How would any of you feel to be picked up by the police and thrown in jail, not even allowed your trial until you have admited guilt to some act that you may or may not have commited?


again, it's hard not to come to this conclusion, as that is what has and is happening right now, and there is no way to 'slant' the fact that this is occuring;

It is a fact that America is holding militants (call them soldiers, terrorists, whatever) in detention centers from at least Iraq, Afghanastan (sp), and Pakistan. Probably more.

They were detained in actions deemed illegal in those countries. There is no need to request there country of origin give permission for them to be held for crimes in another country.

A strong argument can be made they are being held in accordance with the laws of the country they committed the crimes in.

So no, its not as easy as your great, "unbiased" viewpoint would have it seem. I'm not saying its right but for you to sit here and claim to not have bias, to be all seeing and judge only on the facts and not your opinions, is ludicrous as well. Simply being "not American" (be it Canadian or European) does not make you more enlightened. Sorry.

Just to recap: Im not necessarily condemning your arguments - I am calling you out on your condescending attitude. Your arguments may have some basis in logic, even if you do argue in sound bites rather than using logic. However, there is logic on the other side as well.

[FactsOfLife]

Unlawful Combatants

huh.

Well, in such a case they should be charged as such, but the fact of the matter is, most of the people rotting there were never involved in any combat, they were just kidnapped because they were *suspected* of terrorist activities.

And a PoW is defined as personel belinging to a military organization of a opposing force, weather or not involved in actual combat.

Get this through your heads, there are people in that prison who were picked up because your government suspected them of terrorist activities. they have not been charged because in many cases, there is NOTHING to charge them with.

the thing people are having a hard time seeing here is that the US government is NOT RIGHT.

In bold so people actually read it...

The United States Military is holding over 3000 people without charge in a private prison facility, violating both Human Rights and those gaurenteed by the Geneva Convention.


it is as simple as this, The United States Government CANNOT LEGALLY CHARGE ANY OF THESE PEOPLE. They lack the jurisdiction as they are NOT an international court body

and once more...

Most of the people in the Guantanamo Bay Prison Facility have been taken from their home countries without due process

Open your eyes! your government is commiting acts of terrorism!

yet another moonbat heard from. get back under your rock at DU.

[paintballfiend]

just found out they owned a pizza shop in my town ...and one of the houses that got raided is about 2 minutes from me

New PSA:
"If you order pizza you are supporting terrorism."

*paid for by McDonalds, BK, Taco Bell, and KFC.

[Aggravated Assault]

Unlawful Combatants

huh.

Well, in such a case they should be charged as such, but the fact of the matter is, most of the people rotting there were never involved in any combat, they were just kidnapped because they were *suspected* of terrorist activities...

You know this? You've been to Gitmo? Inside Gitmo? You have knowledge of all the detainees there? You know that over half of them were never involved in combat? You know we havent "charged" any of them as being enemy combatants?

Thats a lot of stuff you know.

Better watch out...I bet Dubya is reading your profile and getting your ip as we speak....

[WalkingTarget]

let dubya come... i've devised a clever trap that a 5th grader could figure out... he'll never get in

[paintballfiend]

No one's "facts" are facts, opinions are developed by someone elses opinion, and everyone is biased. So... the truth does not exist, just like there is no right or wrong, just perception.

[FactsOfLife]

let dubya come... i've devised a clever trap that a 5th grader could figure out... he'll never get in

And yet time and again, he manages to outsmart all the so-called "smart" liberals.

[Aggravated Assault]

yet another moonbat heard from. get back under your rock at DU.

NO!

We're having a nice discussion and trying to help this person out. Don't send him to the underground! He'll never be able to think for himself!








/btw target, j/k about the "think for yourself thing."
//Really

[BigTrucker]

Wake up, sheeple! The truth is obvious is you open your eyes!

Umm the truck was scooped off and trashed. The driver was hauling Diesel fuel and that is what melted the bridge. I drive thew here every night. as for fighting for oil???? I mean come one if you think about it that is why we got draged into WWII Japan needed oil and we didnt want to give it to them. That war has been over for 60 years and we still have toops in Japan. Whats up with that???