RTing with a lvl10

[Watcher]

I'm using a 850PSI output Ninja reg, new a few months ago, I'd say it is plenty broken in and it seems to recharge and flow well.


Not a quad o-ring. Single o-ring top, standard urethane...


As far as the porting thing, I don't see how that would effect the reactivity drastically. Besides, I'm using the RT "crownpoint" style stock barrel 99% of the time. It is about 11" unported save for the muzzle-brake.



Updating the problem. I was very confused then had an epiphony.

I added shims to the lvl10. I added 2 making it 4 shims. It didn't leak, but it seemed to make it more reactive.
To find out why I made an experiement. I added and removed shims one at a time to test the trigger pull. Now it didn't seem to effect anything... So I put the whole 4 shims back in and it leaked on and off, then got bolt stick

So I moved to the 2 shims again, then played with the springs. Seemed to be reactive with the silver spring. Went gold spring and it wasn't. Went silver and it wasn't this time for some reason, went gold again and it wasn't reactive again either.

I marked the position of my reg cap, then adjusted it a little. Ater playing around with it to no good results, I put it back to where I knew I chronoed it at 280.

So I tried to increase the output on my tank reg, realized I didn't have the right shims, put it back together, guaged an ASA to make sure it WAS outputting over 850, which it was, then put it on the gun to no reactivity.

Looked at the On/Off, nothing out of the ordinary. Measured the shim I made, still .010 and still in place correctly...


Then I put everything down and stepped back for a minute, got a soda, and thought about it.


On a whim I flooded the fitting into the valve with oil. Maybe 10+ drops, then aired it up.

Reactivity with silver spring, sweetspots on a gold spring!


I guess all it needed was some mag-juice

[Ando]

OMG...All this due to Oil.

[Watcher]

OMG...All this due to Oil.

I've now offically had my hands on about 4-5 automags that were not firing right, got oiled, then behaved like new out of the box...

One was ravenneon's Minimag at TDV, when it was leaking air and oil solved it. He still hasn't changed an o-ring in about 10 years or so...

Another was one I got in my shop that just felt sticky and had leaks on occasion. Oiled it and it felt ok, as far as I know it is still shooting.

There was another in the shop that I couldn't figure out, took apart, put back together, added oil and it was magically better.

And now mine was goofed up, got some lube, then was fine.


It's enscribed on my brain, now. At first sign of issues... oil...

[athomas]

If oiling helps, then the quad oring will definately help. It reduces friction as well. Perhaps you are getting a bit of bolt stick as well, which is not causing the gun not to fire, but rather slowing down the bolt cycle.

The unported barrel works better because it is more efficient due to a longer acceleration area. This allows the gun to operate at a lower chamber pressure. The crown point barrel is a great barrel for this.

[Ando]

Watcher...I just figured you already did the bucket or 2 of oil in the asa thing I never say anything about oil to someone with 400+ posts, I always assume it's been done already

Well never the less, I'm glad you got it working,

[Spider-TW]

If oiling helps, then the quad oring will definately help. It reduces friction as well. Perhaps you are getting a bit of bolt stick as well, which is not causing the gun not to fire, but rather slowing down the bolt cycle.

With the quad oring, the shim probably won't be enough and you will need the shorter pin. I would order the quad ring and the .712 pin at the same time (.712 shim-less and .728 maybe shimmed...thereabouts). I did this on my classic pneumag; it makes for entertaining and informative experiments.

Thanks for the reg info, I've been thinking about a setup with a ninja reg.

I've also found the stem oring in the on/off can get stiff as it gets old. My pneumag has a buna (black at least...) oring which helped loosen it up just right.

[Watcher]

Can you quad a single o-ring top?

No bolt stick. Besides, if I go up a carrier size I get a PT leak.


My shop has plenty of Buna and Urathane (black) o-rings. I might try one. That is what is holding on my powertube tip right now (black urethane).

The Bunas seem a tad weak, though.


The barrel thing, would the effeciency gain be that drastic? I know they have more effective length (why I love Lapco barrels), but I wouldn't think it'd make the residual chamber pressure lower by enough to notice.


I'll probably put a few quads and pins on my next AGD order. I need a X parts kit, a lvl10 medium spring (just in case), some super warp hose, and other misc stuff.

[athomas]

Can you quad a single o-ring top?

The barrel thing, would the effeciency gain be that drastic? I know they have more effective length (why I love Lapco barrels), but I wouldn't think it'd make the residual chamber pressure lower by enough to notice.

The quad will fit any mag in place of the white urethane oring.

I can't tell you specific numbers about efficiency gains on barrels. I do know that I can get over 1100 shots from a 88-3000 on my emag. That equates to about 1400 shots from a 68-4500 which is pretty good. Each tiny bit of pressure increase decreases the efficiency by quite a bit.

[Spider-TW]

I can get almost 35 fps difference in my pump (cocker type) just by going between a .691 12" J&J (lots of porting) to a .686 14" evil pipe with 2" of porting and the same paint of about .689.

If only I could stand to play with it for a full event, I wouldn't have to change the regulator when chronying up or down.

[Watcher]

The quad will fit any mag in place of the white urethane oring.

I can't tell you specific numbers about efficiency gains on barrels. I do know that I can get over 1100 shots from a 88-3000 on my emag. That equates to about 1400 shots from a 68-4500 which is pretty good. Each tiny bit of pressure increase decreases the efficiency by quite a bit.

Yeah, I've never counted but I can get an easy 1000 off of my 68/45. I can usually do 6 pods and a hopper and still have 1000psi left, and I can shoot my mag down to 500.

I usually use my stock barrel, but I also have an ACI Zero-Gravity barrel which has quite a bit of porting. I may have an experiement to do...


I do notice better performance with paint, and I understand why. There is a definite effeciency gain compared to dry firing. This would be the extreme example of a ported barrel using more air, but I still don't see a well ported barrel vs a non-ported barrel making more than, say, 50 shots difference off of a tank.

Considering I wear no more than 4 pods and air-up pretty much after every couple games or so, my setup is plenty effecient for me no matter if I use a swiss-cheese 5" barrel or a solid 12".

[athomas]

... I still don't see a well ported barrel vs a non-ported barrel making more than, say, 50 shots difference off of a tank.

Consider a well ported barrel that starts the porting at 6" as a 6" barrel. The ball needs enough energy behind it to accelerate it to 300fps in just 6". There is quite a bit more energy required than is needed to accelerate a ball to 300fps in 11" for an unported barrel. Plus, if you reduce the energy requirement, you reduce the pressure in the chamber, which will increase the reactivity.

[fierymartel]

Not to revive an old thread, but just set my retro with level 10. Using 1.0 carrier, level 10 spring, and .740 on/off pin. Didn't chrono, but this thing rips. Looks like maybe 12-17 bps. Emptied my Vlocity in 15 seconds! Very controllable.