** Official Level 10 Problems Thread **

[athomas]

retro valved minimag with lvl 10 + zgrip

Leaking somewhat heavily (hissing) out of velocity adjuster. it will cycle even with the leak. holding the trigger down does not change the leaking. Velocity was around 285 last time it was chronoed, middle spring installed with 1.5 spacer(no shims atm).

Thank you for any help you can provide.

Does the leak go away when you reduce the velocity? Have you changed the oring on the regulator piston assembly?

Clean the valve. Clean the regulator piston assembly and change the oring. If it still leaks out the back, change the regulator seat oring. If it still leaks but the leak goes away when you reduce the velocity, you will need a new regulator piston assembly.

[TheRock]

So i have had my tac one since december(new), and ive been playing like 1 time a week.
I have gone through the carriers when a small hiss has developed and its been great with paint.
But now im down to the smallest carrier i think, no dots no ring ? and that one started leaking after almost 4 cases.
Oiling it did not help, is it time for a new oring?
It seems like after 2-3 cases its time to change carrier? or is it more likely to leak when its cold outside? using autolube.
im using 2 shims in lvl 10, it feels like its more gentle with 2shims then with out any at all when i put my finger down the breach.

[athomas]

So i have had my tac one since december(new), and ive been playing like 1 time a week.
I have gone through the carriers when a small hiss has developed and its been great with paint.
But now im down to the smallest carrier i think, no dots no ring ? and that one started leaking after almost 4 cases.
Oiling it did not help, is it time for a new oring?
It seems like after 2-3 cases its time to change carrier? or is it more likely to leak when its cold outside? using autolube.
im using 2 shims in lvl 10, it feels like its more gentle with 2shims then with out any at all when i put my finger down the breach.

Shims don't affect how gentle the bolt is. If you keep having to decrease the carrier size to stop the leak, then the leak is possibly a dirty oring or it is shim related. Usually you won't have to go more than 1 size smaller on the carrier after the oring gets broken in. After that, the oring should last for many cases or paint without problems again.

Make sure you remove the shims when testing carrier sizes. The shims affect how far the bolt has to travel before it can vent. Too many shims and the vent hole will be too close to the oring under normal circumstances. If it is too close with a proper fitting oring, any additional compression could cause leaking and usually does.

Retune your setup. Remove the shims. Use the largest carrier that doesn't leak. You only need shims if you block the bolt and it doesn't shoot or vent, and still won't reset. If it vents and won't reset, its bolt stick not shim related. As long as it vents, the shims are doing their job. A lot of people never use shims in their setup and never have problems.

[Stayhuge]

Hi, so here's my story. Bought a ULE Custom New from AGD back in July 07. Recently turned it into a Pneumag. So now that I have some speed, I took it out on the field this weekend. Started to walk it a little and I chopped a few balls. Now I thought that the LEVEL 10 wasn't supposed to chop. I am assuming that I just need to tune it. I just wanted to make sure, because I don't have any problems like the bolt sticking or air leaking down the barrel, so I was afraid to touch it, because then I might have some of these problems, in addition to the ones that I am having now. If I should just follow the level 10 tuning guide, just let me know. Thanks everyone!!

[athomas]

Hi, so here's my story. Bought a ULE Custom New from AGD back in July 07. Recently turned it into a Pneumag. So now that I have some speed, I took it out on the field this weekend. Started to walk it a little and I chopped a few balls. Now I thought that the LEVEL 10 wasn't supposed to chop. I am assuming that I just need to tune it. I just wanted to make sure, because I don't have any problems like the bolt sticking or air leaking down the barrel, so I was afraid to touch it, because then I might have some of these problems, in addition to the ones that I am having now. If I should just follow the level 10 tuning guide, just let me know. Thanks everyone!!

First, make sure the balls are not fragile and that the barrel has a large enough inside diameter for the ones that you are using.

Also, check the condition of the detents.

To find out if you have optimum tuning, turn the velocity down until the gun won't fire. Then gradually increase the veloctiy setting until the gun fires. Note the velocity at this setting. The optimum level 10 setup is about 20 feet per second above this value. If the initial value is too low, then operating the gun at the desired velocity will cause greater impact forces on the paintballs and will effectively reduce the ability of the level 10 bolt to do its job. If that is the case, go to the next longer bolt spring, and do it again.

[TheRock]

Shims don't affect how gentle the bolt is. If you keep having to decrease the carrier size to stop the leak, then the leak is possibly a dirty oring or it is shim related. Usually you won't have to go more than 1 size smaller on the carrier after the oring gets broken in. After that, the oring should last for many cases or paint without problems again.

Make sure you remove the shims when testing carrier sizes. The shims affect how far the bolt has to travel before it can vent. Too many shims and the vent hole will be too close to the oring under normal circumstances. If it is too close with a proper fitting oring, any additional compression could cause leaking and usually does.

Retune your setup. Remove the shims. Use the largest carrier that doesn't leak. You only need shims if you block the bolt and it doesn't shoot or vent, and still won't reset. If it vents and won't reset, its bolt stick not shim related. As long as it vents, the shims are doing their job. A lot of people never use shims in their setup and never have problems.

So ive tried it without shims and it works good! using the grey spring now at 290fps with 1 dot carrier because 1 ring leaked, this worked good for about 1,5 case then i got a bit of sticking and paint rolling down the barrel and the next fired smashing it at full speed.
I tried the 1 ring carrier and it leaked, so i went back to 1 dot carrier with new oil, still gets the rolling out of barrel.
I went down to the red spring and this gave my 250fps so i raised it to 290fps again and now this one leaks down the barrel but it stops when trigger is held is this still carrierleak? with the red spring its not rolling down the barrel at first shot.
Its addictive to shoot my mag, but there is some learning needed to solve the leaks coming up

[athomas]

So ive tried it without shims and it works good! using the grey spring now at 290fps with 1 dot carrier because 1 ring leaked, this worked good for about 1,5 case then i got a bit of sticking and paint rolling down the barrel and the next fired smashing it at full speed.
I tried the 1 ring carrier and it leaked, so i went back to 1 dot carrier with new oil, still gets the rolling out of barrel.
I went down to the red spring and this gave my 250fps so i raised it to 290fps again and now this one leaks down the barrel but it stops when trigger is held is this still carrierleak? with the red spring its not rolling down the barrel at first shot.
Its addictive to shoot my mag, but there is some learning needed to solve the leaks coming up

The grey spring is too stiff for your setup. That is why it is not shooting consistently. You may have to operate the red spring until the oring gets broken in. That will loosen the fit on the smaller 0.5 carrier. Once the oring gets broken in, the grey spring may work for you. If it still doesn't work consistently, try cutting it down. Do it just a bit at a time until you get the parameters that are best for you.

The leaking down the barrel is carrier related. That is especially evident since it goes away when you hold the trigger. Make sure there isn't a piece of dirt in the oring.

If you are still having issues, try a different carrier oring. Each one will be slightly different and a new one may offer a better fit for your setup.

[phatty123]

I've posted here before and got help and fixed my problem, but I am having more trouble. I think I have something wrong with my level x, or I'm retarded, or its magical. I have a retro vavle with a level 10. I have an intelli frame with blase trigger. I have a minimag body as well. I am putting 1k psi into my marker so there is no shortage of air pressure. I also have a warpfeed with big cell mod and a ricochet apache hopper. Today i was using nel splat.

Agd's suggestions haven't fixed my issues either.

Problem
Fires fine with the gold spring. At about 270-280 fps, but seems to move fast enough to chop a ball in the breech when I am rapid firing.
This is with the weakest spring.

When I install the middle spring (red) it fails to fire (obviously) I turn up the velocity until it fires every trigger pull. At this point the velocity is so high that when I fire air is being kicked out of the allen hole in the back of the valve. It squits grease out aswell. I think this means its probably turned up to high. Well if I turn it down until it is not discharging air from the allen hole it will chuff 1st trigger pull then shoot fine. If I wait a few seconds with out pulling the trigger the shot will chuff and a ball will roll out the barrel. Besides that the anti chop seems to be working great at this level but I can not depend on it foring everytime.

Also I get a small leak when I hold down the trigger. The leak goes away after a second. It is not an on/off leak because the leak goes away when the level 7 bolt is installed. Plus the on/off orings were just replaced. I also put brand spankin new orings in the level x and probably put around 700 shots through it.

From what I have read my marker should fire fine at 280-290 fps with the red srping. I have never been able to achieve this. I alsways and I mean always have this 1st shot chuffing issue. i had it with the gold spring anf I turned the velocity up into the 270-280 fps range and it goes away, but to get the chuffing to go away with the red spring I have to turn it up way to high probably over 300fps.

If some one can help me that would be great. For now I have put the gold spring back in and turned down the velocity and will buy a thicker shelled paint. I hope some one has the miracle answer I need.

I am using a 1.5 carrier (2.0 leaks) and a new carrier oring with 700 shots through it. I also am using zero shimms because the bolt resets fine when stopped.

-barry

EDIT Could it be my reg seat seal? or my reg piston oring?

[athomas]

Fires fine with the gold spring. At about 270-280 fps, but seems to move fast enough to chop a ball in the breech when I am rapid firing.
This is with the weakest spring.

When I install the middle spring (red) it fails to fire (obviously) I turn up the velocity until it fires every trigger pull. At this point the velocity is so high that when I fire air is being kicked out of the allen hole in the back of the valve. It squits grease out aswell.

Also I get a small leak when I hold down the trigger. The leak goes away after a second. It is not an on/off leak because the leak goes away when the level 7 bolt is installed. Plus the on/off orings were just replaced. I also put brand spankin new orings in the level x and probably put around 700 shots through it.

I am using a 1.5 carrier (2.0 leaks) and a new carrier oring with 700 shots through it. I also am using zero shimms because the bolt resets fine when stopped.

-barry

EDIT Could it be my reg seat seal? or my reg piston oring?

What is the lowest velocity that the gold spring will allow the gun to fire at?

If the regulator piston assembly isn't leaking constantly, it could be just a dirty or hardened oring that is causing a spurt of pressure out the back of the adjuster. Give the valve a good cleaning first. Then if it still happens, change the orings.

A small leak that goes away when you hold the trigger is normal on some setups. It happens when the carrier oring isn't sealed tight. In the level 10 setup, there is some residual pressure left in the chamber after a shot. Unfortunately, this small amount of pressure doesn't put much force on a lightly fitting urethane oring to cause it to seal tightly, especially if it hasn't been broken it yet. Once the oring gets broken in it will get better. Even if it doesn't go away, don't worry about it. It isn't a problem.

Are you sure you are getting chops and not breach breaks due to bad balls or a tight barrel? As mentioned in the beginning, find out the minimum firing velocity of the lightest spring. From that we can get an idea of how much adjustment you have available.

[phatty123]

What is the lowest velocity that the gold spring will allow the gun to fire at?

If the regulator piston assembly isn't leaking constantly, it could be just a dirty or hardened oring that is causing a spurt of pressure out the back of the adjuster. Give the valve a good cleaning first. Then if it still happens, change the orings.

A small leak that goes away when you hold the trigger is normal on some setups. It happens when the carrier oring isn't sealed tight. In the level 10 setup, there is some residual pressure left in the chamber after a shot. Unfortunately, this small amount of pressure doesn't put much force on a lightly fitting urethane oring to cause it to seal tightly, especially if it hasn't been broken it yet. Once the oring gets broken in it will get better. Even if it doesn't go away, don't worry about it. It isn't a problem.

Are you sure you are getting chops and not breach breaks due to bad balls or a tight barrel? As mentioned in the beginning, find out the minimum firing velocity of the lightest spring. From that we can get an idea of how much adjustment you have available.

I can shoot down to about 265-270 witht he gold spring and cant use the red spring a all. most of the breaks I got were in the barrel right in the breech and I had one chop in half into the power feed.

barry

[athomas]

I can shoot down to about 265-270 witht he gold spring and cant use the red spring a all. most of the breaks I got were in the barrel right in the breech and I had one chop in half into the power feed.

barry

That's strange. Your lower range of 265 - 270 puts you in the proper 285 - 290 operating range for consistent operation with exellent chop protection. I don't think your problem is with the level 10 spring you are using.

I would give the valve a good cleaning first, to make sure your regulator is working properly. Bad orings combined with the 1000psi input pressure could lead to higher than normal shootup, which could increase the forward force on the balls in the breach to a dangerous value. It could be your reason for chopping.

[phatty123]

I have cleaned the valve pretty well and repacked the spring. Maybe I need to replace some orings.

-barry

[athomas]

Maybe I need to replace some orings.

-barry

That would be my next step.

Also, check your nubbins. What is your barrel id? How is the ball fitting into the barrel? Tight loose?

[phatty123]

That would be my next step.

Also, check your nubbins. What is your barrel id? How is the ball fitting into the barrel? Tight loose?

The paint fit ok, but I have been having this problem with the red spring with any paint I've used. I am using a plastic nubbin, but I dont like th eplastic nubbins because I dont think they put enough pressure to hold the ball since I'm using a warpfeed. I am currently using a dye ultralight barrel. I have a noxx55 adapter on the way and I will be using a freak kit soon.

-barry

[athomas]

I am using a plastic nubbin, but I dont like th eplastic nubbins because I dont think they put enough pressure to hold the ball since I'm using a warpfeed. I am currently using a dye ultralight barrel.

Some of the twistlock dye barrels don't fit well with mags. If you suspect an issue with the nubbins, you are probably correct. There is a tiny knob on the back of the nubbin. This knob sits against the outer wall of the body and bends the nubbin into the barrel. On a poor fitting barrel if it doesn't have enough pressure on it, it won't protrude far enough into the barrel to be effective. You can increase the force of the nubbins by wrapping a piece of tape around the barrel over the back of the nubbins where the little knob sticks up.