Need beta testers for efficiency inserts

[gommie404]

hi all gommie404 here from the uk,,, i have been reading this item with interest,,
as a lot of you know im a keen inventor and marker maker,,

but im trying to work out what you are doing here,,, as far as i can see,,what you are trying to do is drop the volume of air by fitting a spacer in side the dump chamber,,

em,, boyles law,, is worth a read,, what ever volume you remove,,will be taken up by pressure,,

and your going to increase the bolts forward speed,, not good,,

but the amount of air your going to use will be the same,, all your be doing is filling a smaller space with the same amount of air but at a higher pressure,,

< note all based on no ajaustments being made to rear reg >


now talking about a higher pressure,, if your new chamber size is to small ,,
your be making more preesure than you have at the reg piston at the rear,, this will result in air feed back and piston bounce,,


so you will suffer more shoot down not less,,, come have a chat,,

[hill160881]

All theories aside, it works. Doing the work at a higher pressure with a faster cycle is more efficient than a lower pressure with a slower cycle, to a point. This is just how it works with a mag. As it turns out AGD got the same results I did with devolumizing only did not use the insert angle and produced another valve. Some valves were made with a smaller shot chamber, but who would buy another valve to get better efficiency?

[Justus]

... but who would buy another valve to get better efficiency?

What? There are tons of people who have bought other complete markers to get better efficiency. If AGD released a new version of the X-Valve that was efficient enough to get a case off a 68/45 I think there would be tons people that would jump at that. Hence, the interest in these devolumizers.

[mogli]

gimme sometime over break I'm looking to design a new power tube and bolt combo to greater reduce flow resistance by a increase the power tube's diameter. Didnt spend 8yrs in college and the past two years modeling blood flow through a ventricle assist device to not apply things learned to something I care about, sorry i do care about helping ppl with heart disease, just hate being a puppet for universities and project sponsors with no common sense, sorry back to my thesis for me..... mmm beer

[cougar20th]

FYI: These inserts will not fit a lvl 5 valve. Its been to long to remember exactly why it didnt fit but I can always check. Gonna need to find myself another way to devolumize the valve.

[splat15k]

hi all gommie404 here from the uk,,, i have been reading this item with interest,,
as a lot of you know im a keen inventor and marker maker,,

but im trying to work out what you are doing here,,, as far as i can see,,what you are trying to do is drop the volume of air by fitting a spacer in side the dump chamber,,

em,, boyles law,, is worth a read,, what ever volume you remove,,will be taken up by pressure,,

and your going to increase the bolts forward speed,, not good,,

but the amount of air your going to use will be the same,, all your be doing is filling a smaller space with the same amount of air but at a higher pressure,,

< note all based on no ajaustments being made to rear reg >


now talking about a higher pressure,, if your new chamber size is to small ,,
your be making more preesure than you have at the reg piston at the rear,, this will result in air feed back and piston bounce,,


so you will suffer more shoot down not less,,, come have a chat,,

Boyle's law does not apply here since we're not dealing with a closed system. Boyle's law would only apply if we sealed off all ports in and out of the dump chamber and then we reduced the volume without ever breaking the seal.

[mogli]

i agree i thought it only was applicable to static systems, here we are mad transient

[y0da900]

Not only transient, but there is a huge assumption made that the system reacts linearly to changes in pressure. If that were the case, then devolumizing the dump chamber and smoothing the transitional entrance to the flow path wouldn't do anything. Thankfully, that's not the case, and the energy consumption of the system (and other similar valve trains) drops at the higher pressures resulting in the ability to decrease the net energy stored in the chamber.

[mogli]

The stock powertube has a minimal ID of .283" right behind the oring. I want to try to increase that to about .375 which is just over 75% gain in orifice area. The only thing that is difficult is coming up with a bolt design I can fabricate easily.

[y0da900]

It's an odd balance making the ID of the powertube larger. To make that larger, you need to increase the Id of the bolt to maintain the same cross sectional area through that as before, or it can be futile.

Two piece bolt with an outer portion having the main length of the bolt and the spring lip having an internal thread to attach the bolt face and core. Relatively simple to make with a lathe.

[mogli]

Ya I was thinking the same but wanted to look into one piece options also. It would just require a special style of boring bar/insert combo.

[captian pinky]

the lvl 10 bolts are 2 pieces and the inside piece is press fitted

[mogli]

after further inspection i found the lvl 7 are press fit two piece also

[gommie404]

em this is a very interesting thread,,

so what sort of shot savings have you or the beta testers found so far,,,

im gonna be rebuilding my emag soon,, but back into a mech set up,,with a x vavle,,

im looking to make up a simple marker for over seas travel,,

but with the xvalve ,, im all ways bumping into the,,needs a certain pressure to work,,

and when i play over the pond i have to leave my big bottles at home,, and then end up loaning a small bottle,,

which as we know is a pain,, with lv 10 and a x vavle

[mogli]

haven't designed anything yet but from early calc i can get a 60% increase of Cross sectional area of the power tube and increase the main flow path of the bolt by 18% now looking to increase the flow area of the bolt face and incorporate an laminar flow element style face.

now the next debate is whether to make the prototype from SS or alum, alum would be easier but i dont like thread alum into SS as I'm gonna be working on the classic valve.