Autococker Curious (Caution: Long-winded OP)

[ghost flanker]

I recently started thinking about getting my first Autococker after all these years. I know next to nothing about them. I love mech guns though and have faithfully shot mags from the very beginning. When I bought my first mag in 1995, I very nearly got an Autococker instead - that beefy shroud with the ribs going over the barrel looked so cool - but the .68 Automag ultimately won out simply because my local paintball store had that one in stock at the time. I've been an Automag guy ever since and haven't looked back. Until now. I've heard about the special character that only cockers have and how fun they are to shoot - all those sounds and moving parts make them gleefully over-complicated like a Rube Goldberg machine. I'm intrigued and I think I'm ready to make the leap.

There's lots of different cockers out there to choose from it seems. It's a little daunting. I do know that, above all, I want a "fun gun" - something to putt around with in recball games. As such, it doesn't need to be high performance but it's got to be non-problematic. The 4 key aspects I require are good reliability, ease of maintenance/disassembly, a fluid single-finger trigger pull, and reasonably balanced ergonomics. Not so important qualities include rate of fire, overall weight, air efficiency/consistency, upgradability, and cost (to an extent). As far as marker appearance, I generally find pimped out, chrome glistening, brightly anodized, rediculously milled, aftermarket-upgraded guns to be a bit of a turn off. Just not my style. You lose a little history with customization, especially when it's altered to someone else's liking. For me, the more OEM the gun is, the better.

One of my first choices is a late 90s WGP specimen that is bone stock. I think the '98s in particular look great and they positively reek of paintball history. I'm a little concerned about their overall practicality, though. I hear that ball rollout, short stroking, and centerfeed necks are issues. I'm also concerned that numerous upgrades might be a necessity for the gun to function well (i.e. deal breaker, I don't want a project build). School me if my apprehensions here are unwarranted.

The other option I'm seriously considering is an Empire Resurrection. On the downside, it's missing that classic back-block as well as the pneumatics-shroud, and I don't care for the big "Empire" logo that's billboarded onto the side of the body, either. Nevertheless, they still look quite good. And apparently they function really well, too...though short stroking is still a thing. It has a clamping vertical feedneck, a purging ASA, and a matching barrel kit...all stock. Oh, and gone is the dreaded valve tool. Just not sure whether I prefer black or gray more.

There are other cocker variants too, such as AKAs and Shocktechs, but I know nothing about any of them. Tell me what you think would be the best choice for me. I'd especially like to hear opinions about my top 2 picks, but any cocker recommendation is welcome.

[Dark Side]

Honestly, CustomCockers would be the best place for all of your questions.

[Nobody]

From back to the mid to late 90s, reliability was dependent upon you the user. Many would swap this part & that part, sometimes for no real performance upgrade over stock. I have used cockers and shooting a well tuned cocker is a glorious feeling. With that, you need to look at how you play. That is the determing factor to good cocker use.

1) feednecks. If you want a revy and a side feed, that's fine. Some want/need centerfeeds. There is the rub. If you want locking feednecks, even CCM feednecks, either you have to go with something that it already has it or ego feedneck mod the older body. Right or left feeds don't have that problem, yet you have to have elbows. This will eliminate some older cockers.

2) upgrades. This is a a tricky point. You at least want/need adjustable LPR & HPR. The 4way & rams are less needed. Short throw 4ways like the bomb are great but have you need to balance the switch points with the sear and trigger. Once you learn that balance its fairly easy.

3) reliability. See above

4) triggers. This is a point of contention with me. I love sliders and hate pivot and double triggers on them. This is totally on you. I suggest trying to find someone with either that you can try & see which one you like.

5) Ressurection. I love them. Might be cause i know the man who made them happen. But it is a all in one gun the parts used have been refined that they are pretty much the best(and only new) parts you can have. You also have the customer service of a company STILL in business, which can't be said of others, as well as not having to hoard certain parts. Plus, with a Ressurection, you can have Inception bodies for it.

Custom cockers is better at this, but its not to say that people here only use one type of gun.

[going_home]

Of course mags are better.

If you need a headache get a cocker.....

[ghost flanker]

Nobody, what do you mean when you say reliability is dependent on the user? Are you referring to tuning and overall maintenance?
And I tend to play sneaky frontman in recball/woodsball games. I move around a lot and mostly prefer a tight setup. Is there a type of cocker that'd suit my particular style of play?

1.) I'd prefer centerfeed but I'm totally fine with right feed. It's negligible, really.

2.) Are stock LPRs and HPRs not adjustable on older cockers? What do adjustable ones do that non-adjustable ones can't?

3.) See above

4.) Definitely want a single-finger slider trigger.

5.) I've heard the same thing about Resurrections - that they're basically a cocker that comes stock with all the best upgrades already on it. Only negative thing I've heard is that the hammer (I think it was) is a bit rough which slightly reduces smoothness in the trigger pull. Other than that, people seem to love them.

I may register with Custom Cockers if I need further info and my resources here have been exhausted. Thanks guys. And keep those helpful posts coming!

[Nobody]

Nobody, what do you mean when you say reliability is dependent on the user? Are you referring to tuning and overall maintenance?

Because of the parts used to make an automated pump, there is a balance of you pulling the trigger, which drops the sear, which opens the valve which fires the gun. Then the trigger moves the 4way to switch air to the ram from the closed position to the open and then back again. It truly is a Rube Goldberg machine. The lack of reliability comes from changing one part or taking one part out of adjustment and it can throw off everything. If you get a cocker already set up, like a Ressurection, there is no need, but if you go with an older cocker, it would have a higher chance of part failure.

So it has more to do with understanding how each part functions AND how they function together. Change or adjust one piece you can get a monster of a blender.

And I tend to play sneaky frontman in recball/woodsball games. I move around a lot and mostly prefer a tight setup. Is there a type of cocker that'd suit my particular style of play?

Cocker have length. Add in a cocker with a back block and you have a longer gun. A half or midblock gun does shorten it on the back end but you do miss the back block circulation with each shot. I would highly suggest making friends with a cocker owner and possibly playing with the gun and see what you like and don't like so you can get a feel for the gun.

1.) I'd prefer centerfeed but I'm totally fine with right feed. It's negligible, really.

A majority of cockers, baring the Resurrection, will not have a locking feedneck. This can and will limit you hopper choices. On older stock or non-PL cockers, some may get upset if you chop them to retrofit a clamping feedneck. This is a something to look at.

2.) Are stock LPRs and HPRs not adjustable on older cockers? What do adjustable ones do that non-adjustable ones can't?

Nope. Sledgehammers and stock HPRs are not externally adjustable. If you have a problem with them, you need to degas, take apart & guess at your adjustment. Those 2 pieces are pretty much the 1st 2 things you change on a stock cocker. On most PL or aftermarket gun, those pieces are already changed. The LPR is in charge of setting pressure to the pneumatics. The HPR can be used two ways. 1, to set velocity, or you set pressure & change velocity with spring tension.

3.) See above

Answered above

4.) Definitely want a single-finger slider trigger.

It is a feel. Do shoot one before setting on one. It does take getting used to, as it is a 2 stage trigger. Some like the swing as it easier to some.

5.) I've heard the same thing about Resurrections - that they're basically a cocker that comes stock with all the best upgrades already on it. Only negative thing I've heard is that the hammer (I think it was) is a bit rough which slightly reduces smoothness in the trigger pull. Other than that, people seem to love them.

I don't know, but lmk if you are getting one, as i know of one of a shop/field(which we hold Tunaball at) that are masters of the cocker. If you get one from them, they will put a slight massage to help.out the gun. The Resurrection that i used(which is BigEvil's) was done by the field and i didn't feel anything.

I may register with Custom Cockers if I need further info and my resources here have been exhausted. Thanks guys. And keep those helpful posts coming!

While i think i can cover most bases, the more info you get, the more informed you will be when you buy one.

[ghost flanker]

Just registered with customcockers but I guess I'm not cleared to post anything there yet.

I have the opportunity to pick up a '98 WGP Autococker. It does have a Benchmark frame (slide trigger) but otherwise appears totally stock. And it's got the front shroud with good condition neoprene and the slant-cut ribs just the way I like it (images are failing to attach to this post for some reason so I can't show you). So old school! Looks like the bees knees, at least to me.

The only issue with the gun, according to the seller, is that the shroud seems too loose. He doesn't know why, though. It's so bad that apparently it will slide right off the gun when pointing down. I'm pretty infatuated with this cocker already and hope it's an easy fix. So any ideas why this might be happening? Can it be repaired?

[Nobody]

The front shrowd is held on by a friction fit to the front block. To tighten it, bend it in

But the 98 is not bad. Other than the pneumatics, any and all internals MUST be for a pre-99 gun. IN 2000, they(WGP) made changes to the internals, so you can not use post 2000 parts. If it is stock on the front block, the ram & 4 way will be brass and the LPR will be all black without an adjustment screw on the front. Also the HPR will have the airline coming into the bottom with no adjustment. It would be the first thing to go, IMO.

As for what you will need first(but not necessarily needed to use it) would be a new HPR, a spring kit & a valve tool. You can certainly get a Palmer Rock to change out the LPR and then upgrade the 4way and even the ram, but it truly is up to you if you want.

[ScottyBeans]

I'll throw this out there - for your first autococker I'd recommend a 2k+ for the ease of having external lug adjustment alone. It's somewhat more difficult to do any meaningful adjustment when you have to pull the hammer out each time you want to adjust the firing point.

Also- the stock, pre-set "Sledgehammer" LPRs do a pretty good job and are very reliable. You may not be able to get the cycling pressure as low as possible like you can with an adjustable reg but it's a minor disadvantage at worst. I agree that an adjustable HPR is a must-have, more or less.

[Nobody]

98 should have the lug adjustment as it was standard. Only pre97 was it not there.

[cockerpunk]

the resurrection is great for a first time cocker buyer/shooter. simon really made the gun as easy to operate and shoot as possible, its an excellent bit of design.

if you know more about cockers, you can find something similar or better for less money, but its honestly tough to recommend anything else for a first timer because of the ease of use that the Resurrection has.

for a first timer, id avoid a pre-2000 gun. the gun was updated substantially post 97, and in 2000.

also you may want to consider a hinge, they are much faster, and more importantly, easier to shoot fast than a slider.

[ghost flanker]

I've identified the gun I'm thinking of getting as a '99 Autococker (the shroud and the bolt both correlate to that particular year).
image.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpg
I think the nostalgia is taking hold. I mean, look at it! ...okay, so maybe it's just me.

A post-2K cocker or a Ressurection may very well be the smarter buy, but my priorities seem to be shifting more towards learning and discovery rather than performance. I almost prefer the handicap of a slower gun, actually. And I've never met a double trigger that I liked, and cocker hinge triggers look particularly ugly to me. Maybe pre-2K cockers are a pain in the ass to adjust but I'm still drawn. The 99's really had most of the kinks worked out, anyway. Right? I guess as long as air leaks and malfunctions are not a constant burden, I'm willing to give it a try. I repair hydraulic machinery for a living so the complexity issue doesn't really scare me - if a whole generation of cocker toting teenage kids who believed in the magic of closed-bolt range and accuracy could figure it out, I think I'll be ok.

I really intend on keeping this gun all stock, though. If I ever feel like I need better performance on the field, I'll look into a Ressurection or maybe build a post-2k custom cocker. That or I'll just grab something with an X-valve in it.

[Nobody]

Ok, that is a stock 98/99 cocker with a benchmark 45. Looks clean and unmolested.

Kudos to you in not jumping into it and changing this and that cause you can. With that, i HIGHLY suggest reading, rereading, and then reading again, Ravi Chopra's Infosheet. Not only is the information contained in it is probably the best cocker reference, but is also more specific to your needs as the 99 cocker was the penicle or subject of it. MCB has a link as i am sure CC will have it as well.

A whole lot of what i know was gleaned from that and even 15 years after it was written, it still is the best.

But i will give you a head start. To adjust velocity, you need to do 2 things. How it is set in the pictures, you need to take out the cocking rod(the rod under the bolt on the back block), and turn in or out to change spring tension of the hammer opening the valve. It is a PITA. The other method is to change the air pressure through the HPR. So ditch that and play with it.

The stock pneumatics are stock. If they work, then you don't NEED to change them. Other than 4way orings, its a fire and forget kinda thing. Some actually perfer the stock pneumatics, as it is one less thing to muck about.

When you air it up, hold trigger and go for it. Going from mags to cockers, you will need to relearn how to pull the trigger fully again. It is practicing good trigger hygiene. That is nearly direct from Ravi Chopra. So enjoy it. There is nothing like a well tuned cocker, or just a cocker that just shoots. I know, itz heresy to say such things on AO, but its the truth. Totally different, yet equally rewarding.

[Dayspring]

TechPB did an autococker show of death a while back. It covers the basics and pretty much everything you may need:

[ghost flanker]

Ha! I just read Ravi Chopra's article on stock Autocockers last night as well as his stock '99 review - that's how I learned to identify a '98 from a '99. His '99 review also dispelled a lot of apprehension and helped significantly with my decision. I was stoked to learn that the specimen I've been eyeballing for the past few days turned out to be a '99. A handy bunch of 411 he's accumulated there.

What I hadn't seen before was Mike's Autococker Show. What a great resource that footage is! I'll certainly be watching that video while adjusting anything on my soon to be and first Autococker. Thanks a bunch guys!