Aluminum Classic Valve

[going_home]

RT ULE mags with an X-valve, when built to spec and ran at normal pressures do not bounce fire. They fire one shot per pull. They do not "run away".

I have said this many times before. X-valves set up to do that are "modified valves/guns". It's like turning up the BPS on an electro. Any electro is capable of high rates of fire, but it's on the player to follow the rules and set the gun up with the proper settings. We don't ban the gun because of its capability to shoot faster than the rules allow.

There is no assist in the pull to an X-valve. None. Zero. There is no force besides your finger that pulls the trigger. The force required to pull the trigger can be changed. This is done with the on/off assembly. The Ultra Light Trigger Kit is an example of that. The stock assembly is replaced with a much thinner pin assembly that requires even less energy to pull. A classic valve can actually be modified the same way. You can use an RT on/off assembly to lessen the trigger pull.

The X-valve guns modified to run away have activation points set so close, that basically any pressure can activate the trigger, and because the gun can return to the "ready to fire" state very fast is can be made to "bounce" with little effort. This activation point can be adjusted again through the on/off assembly by changing the length of the pin. You can shut the gun completely down by using too long of a pin and likewise you can make the gun go full auto, by using a very short pin or no pin at all.

Bottom line is, X-valves can be built to be legal for these events. Banning them is just plain ignorant and IMO extremely biased and prejudiced based on the people who are writing the rules. Don't ban the guns, penalize those who break the rules.

In my 27 year history in the paintball business, this is always typical of paintball events. Privately owned leagues with their own agenda that is not necessarily aligned with what's best for paintball. The is a free country and the NXL is a private company. They can do whatever they choose. I can't even tell who owns the NXL, there is no "Company info" on the site. Their agenda obviously is "Cocker" based and competition interferes with their goals.

If the NXL won't allow the most iconic mechanical gun in paintball history then we will just look for/start/promote alternative events that do. All the money and players who would have supported their events, will have to go elsewhere.

From the NXL mech thread on PBN.

[zondo]

How many mag guys do you know that play in the NXL ?

Mag guys play woods, not balloons in an open field....

I think you missed the point of my question... I was asking which audience was discussing this.


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[BigEvil]

Simon seems to be spearheading this for the NFL.

Maybe talk to him.

I'm sure Scott has his number, call him.

He needs to talk to Tom Cole. I already asked about it.

[going_home]

Simon seems to be spearheading this for the NFL.

Maybe talk to him.

I'm sure Scott has his number, call him.

[Sandman]

Sent out another email to NXL...We'll see if they respond.

I guess I'll address the thread topic.....aluminum automag valves.....We already make one. It's called the X-valve.
Making a classic valve would cost the same to make. A few parts are cheaper, like the reg pin. but for the most part it's the same cost.

If we can't make a classic valve for significantly cheaper, then there really is no point in making it.

[going_home]

Donating a marker as a prize should help make sure mags are included.

I'm willing to Paypal a little $ to help the cause if Tim wants to go that route.

Anyone else care ?

[Patron God of Pirates]

I don't see anything on the Facebook post or on their website about banning Mags. I did see this:
"Series Champs Will Win New Mechanical Markers!"

If AGD wants Mags in the tourney, offering some up as prizes is probably the best way to grease the skids.

[1985phenom]

Once again, I am not the target audience of tournament paintball, but...
AGD and her allies need to actively lobby the organization to clarify and grant an audience. This could be a huge revival in semi play. I am sure this is being done.

On the flip side, the organization should have reached out to effected parties for standards/rules input. This was an utter fail on their part.

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[BigEvil]

It's simple,

I build mags all the time that DO NOT BOUNCE. You can try as hard as you want to short pull, slight pull, tease pull....however you want and the gun will not bounce.

Bounce is created by setting the firing point as close as possible to the ready to fire point. Most guns can be set-up to do it. I can make a cocker bounce fire too. It just doesn't work as well because the gun is not capable of returning to the ready to fire state as fast as a mag.

The bottom line is there is no reason to ban mags other than "they"(those making the rules and running the league) are most likely Cocker fans and don't want to compete against a superior mechanical gun.

I've tried contacting the NXL to discuss this. No one bothers to respond. No ones even contacted AGD at all about the league. The Automag is only the most iconic gun besides the Autococker that started the whole competitive sport side of paintball. And these jokers ban them for no reason at all, other than they have no understanding of the tech and don't want to get beat by them.

I guess we'll have to start a competing league.

I will try to see that the fact no one has responded through to the appropriate channels. No promises though... :/

[blackdeath1k]

there were many ways they could have set a bps cap and they didnt even bother.

500 balls per player
gravity feed or no force feed hoppers
rting penalties

but instead they chose to cut off a whole chunk of the people that would have/wanted to enter/travel play and give them money.

While i see a big surge in people wanting to shoot mech's again, i wish the industry wasn't so one sided.

It's almost like the tournament side of the industry blacklisted AGD after the original RT was released and they have never allowed the thought of reconsidering there stance on the subject.

[going_home]

Did they exclude Automags ?

Is it official ?

[captian pinky]

It's simple,

I build mags all the time that DO NOT BOUNCE. You can try as hard as you want to short pull, slight pull, tease pull....however you want and the gun will not bounce.

Bounce is created by setting the firing point as close as possible to the ready to fire point. Most guns can be set-up to do it. I can make a cocker bounce fire too. It just doesn't work as well because the gun is not capable of returning to the ready to fire state as fast as a mag.

The bottom line is there is no reason to ban mags other than "they"(those making the rules and running the league) are most likely Cocker fans and don't want to compete against a superior mechanical gun.

I've tried contacting the NXL to discuss this. No one bothers to respond. No ones even contacted AGD at all about the league. The Automag is only the most iconic gun besides the Autococker that started the whole competitive sport side of paintball. And these jokers ban them for no reason at all, other than they have no understanding of the tech and don't want to get beat by them.

I guess we'll have to start a competing league.

there were many ways they could have set a bps cap and they didnt even bother.

500 balls per player
gravity feed or no force feed hoppers
rting penalties

but instead they chose to cut off a whole chunk of the people that would have/wanted to enter/travel play and give them money.

While i see a big surge in people wanting to shoot mech's again, i wish the industry wasn't so one sided.

[Loguzzzzzz]

Believe it or not this is really not the center of AGD. There a whole other culture of mag users that buy from the AGD store not even knowing this website exist! If you think that Tom, Dave or now Tim were/are only selling to the fine members of AO you are severely under rating this reach of the AutoMag!

[going_home]

He shoots mags.

Came to Tunaball a few years back too.

[JKR]

That's actually my point. You have managed to somehow in one sentence compile a list entirely composed of useless rehash items.

Do you think I'm talking about "new milling"? Is that what you took from my statement?




It's a good bet that anything that AGD produces now, in 2017, will be priced at late-80s level prices. Except they will adjust upward for inflation. They will price themselves out of the market, then complain that there's no market.

Why?

Because history repeats itself.

If not new milling, then what? AGD has the best performing mechanical semi around...very little room for improvement - maybe some efficiency improvements. It is extremely durable and robust and performs better than any other mechanical semi.

Lighter weight? That is subjective as there are many that prefer mechanical 'guns and a bit of nicely balanced weight to said 'guns.

So, the guts are solid...that leaves trigger frames, triggers, lightened bodies, and better feednecks. Improvements or options that customers want in these items are hardly "useless".

Honestly, other than aesthetics, what are you talking about?

Pricing? Well, you get what you pay for. If you want to support American industry as opposed to Chinese made battery powered options, that's up to you.

Not sure your particular dislike for AGD but you might want to consider hanging out in a different corner of the electronic world, just in case you missed the familiar name within the web address.