Aluminum Classic Valve

[Sandman]

It's simple,

I build mags all the time that DO NOT BOUNCE. You can try as hard as you want to short pull, slight pull, tease pull....however you want and the gun will not bounce.

Bounce is created by setting the firing point as close as possible to the ready to fire point. Most guns can be set-up to do it. I can make a cocker bounce fire too. It just doesn't work as well because the gun is not capable of returning to the ready to fire state as fast as a mag.

The bottom line is there is no reason to ban mags other than "they"(those making the rules and running the league) are most likely Cocker fans and don't want to compete against a superior mechanical gun.

I've tried contacting the NXL to discuss this. No one bothers to respond. No ones even contacted AGD at all about the league. The Automag is only the most iconic gun besides the Autococker that started the whole competitive sport side of paintball. And these jokers ban them for no reason at all, other than they have no understanding of the tech and don't want to get beat by them.

I guess we'll have to start a competing league.

[1985phenom]

My .02 (never played in a tournament, but started playing in late 90s)

I believe the Genesis of this rule/school of thought starts back when electros started becoming mainstays in tournaments. ROF caps and the like are obviously able to be regulated. AGD cornered the market on performance (high) mechs that could achieve uncappable ROF. Everyone can remember playing with/against guys who had a cheater or workaround on their marker to achieve a higher rate of fire in those days.

^this speaks to the letter of the law, no matter how misinformed it is and all the talk about force returning the trigger, and one pull one shot, etc

Now to the spirit of the law. I would imagine the rules committee wants non-RT/runaway mechs. This is easily achievable. And should be an easy clarification. Talk about reviving a segment of the market and some old rivalries.

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[going_home]

Have you seen the prices of the new stuff Tim has been working on ?

Its not low end pricing by any means, but it seems competitive at least.

http://www.airgundesigns.com/category-s/107.htm

[GoatBoy]

Lightweight bodies with expanding anno options, new frames and triggers, an array of factory available feednecks...yeah, the ecosystem is languishing alright! smh

So many haters.

If we wanted a company that redefines itself each year by releasing new milling, we wouldn't be fans of AGD!

That's actually my point. You have managed to somehow in one sentence compile a list entirely composed of useless rehash items.

Do you think I'm talking about "new milling"? Is that what you took from my statement?

PE isn't allowing the aftermarket to dictate their business plans. That is one important difference in your analysis. Everyone loves to see the cool stuff from Luke, XMT, and the rest but the end result is a built 'Mag over a grand. Life sustaining, volume sales are not going to come from a 'Mag with a price tag of over $1000...not in today's economy. AGD needs to focus on 'Mags in the $500-$600 range to keep the lights on and throw in some high end stuff along the way to generate interest. I don't have a sales analysis of the PE company but I'll bet their bread and butter is the market in the $500-$750 (and under) range.

It's a good bet that anything that AGD produces now, in 2017, will be priced at late-80s level prices. Except they will adjust upward for inflation. They will price themselves out of the market, then complain that there's no market.

Why?

Because history repeats itself.

[JKR]

Yet, the numbers that the private sector(XMT, Magnus, Tuna, KAM, Luke) are doing (20 bodies here, 50 frames there, 12 forgrips, etc) is NOT thriving. This is life support, not life. If you care to see at a field who is buying new guns, what they are using, that is life. If you look at PE, for example, they are updating, changing, improving their lineup of guns because they are selling, they are getting feedback from the players in what they want, what they need. Regardless of where they are played at, PE is looking at the future, not to the past. AO can't even do half the pre-orders to completion, do 100 parts of ANYTHING, or get someone to actually agree on any 1 part that is actually NEEDED.

I love mags, but if AGD wants to grow and live, it will need 1 person to make decisions on a path, 1 person to fund it, and 1 person to make the parts.

And before any of you even think i don't know what i am talking about, i see what Inception Designs is doing and they are pushing into the market, making a name for themselves and trying to put their mark on the paintball world. AO, can't even agree on what they like for a foregrip...

PE isn't allowing the aftermarket to dictate their business plans. That is one important difference in your analysis. Everyone loves to see the cool stuff from Luke, XMT, and the rest but the end result is a built 'Mag over a grand. Life sustaining, volume sales are not going to come from a 'Mag with a price tag of over $1000...not in today's economy. AGD needs to focus on 'Mags in the $500-$600 range to keep the lights on and throw in some high end stuff along the way to generate interest. I don't have a sales analysis of the PE company but I'll bet their bread and butter is the market in the $500-$750 (and under) range.

[BigEvil]

And before any of you even think i don't know what i am talking about, i see what Inception Designs is doing and they are pushing into the market, making a name for themselves and trying to put their mark on the paintball world. AO, can't even agree on what they like for a foregrip...

AO is no indication of anything, even in it's heyday was a poor barometer of the retail market.

[BigEvil]

Lightweight bodies with expanding anno options, new frames and triggers, an array of factory available feednecks...yeah, the ecosystem is languishing alright! smh

So many haters.

If we wanted a company that redefines itself each year by releasing new milling, we wouldn't be fans of AGD!

Or we can just shoot cockers. Nothing like that going on with that platform right ?

[Nobody]

Lightweight bodies with expanding anno options, new frames and triggers, an array of factory available feednecks...yeah, the ecosystem is languishing alright! smh

So many haters.

If we wanted a company that redefines itself each year by releasing new milling, we wouldn't be fans of AGD!

Yet, the numbers that the private sector(XMT, Magnus, Tuna, KAM, Luke) are doing (20 bodies here, 50 frames there, 12 forgrips, etc) is NOT thriving. This is life support, not life. If you care to see at a field who is buying new guns, what they are using, that is life. If you look at PE, for example, they are updating, changing, improving their lineup of guns because they are selling, they are getting feedback from the players in what they want, what they need. Regardless of where they are played at, PE is looking at the future, not to the past. AO can't even do half the pre-orders to completion, do 100 parts of ANYTHING, or get someone to actually agree on any 1 part that is actually NEEDED.

I love mags, but if AGD wants to grow and live, it will need 1 person to make decisions on a path, 1 person to fund it, and 1 person to make the parts.

And before any of you even think i don't know what i am talking about, i see what Inception Designs is doing and they are pushing into the market, making a name for themselves and trying to put their mark on the paintball world. AO, can't even agree on what they like for a foregrip...

[JKR]

Back to the topic, I don't see AGD popping out an aluminum Classic valve. The valve is, after all, just the valve. The entire ecosystem around the valve has languished, and rehashing the valve while still pushing the same warmed-over ecosystem would be a amazing exercise in futility.

Lightweight bodies with expanding anno options, new frames and triggers, an array of factory available feednecks...yeah, the ecosystem is languishing alright! smh

So many haters.

If we wanted a company that redefines itself each year by releasing new milling, we wouldn't be fans of AGD!

[athomas]

Most of that comes from uneducated speculation on how they operate. Its too bad. People often jump to conclusions based on misconceptions, not just in paintball. Any mag can be made to operate without being runaway reactive. Its easily tested. Any mechancial marker can be made to go full auto. That would mean all markers would be banned. Not because they are bad, but because they have the capability to be bad. Rule need to be put in place and any marker that meets those rules should be able to be used.

[going_home]

Most of the mag guys or most of the NXL guys?

How many mag guys do you know that play in the NXL ?

Mag guys play woods, not balloons in an open field....

[GoatBoy]

I'm not really a car guy.

I'm thinking fun/interesting in kind of an America's Cup way.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/5/25/11771276/americas-cup-boat-design-team-oracle

Or if you're into model aircraft... I believe the fastest RC model aircraft is currently... a glider.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_soaring

We'd never reach the level of R&D or interest of either of those though.

Back to the topic, I don't see AGD popping out an aluminum Classic valve. The valve is, after all, just the valve. The entire ecosystem around the valve has languished, and rehashing the valve while still pushing the same warmed-over ecosystem would be a amazing exercise in futility.

[zondo]

Judging from many of the replies that I have seen to a discussion on Mags in the NXL I get the feeling that most want no part of it.

Most of the mag guys or most of the NXL guys?


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[Spider-TW]

Will they ever get to a NASCAR style competition where the markers are as well defined as race cars? They would all be the same brand and model with strict modification guidelines.

Shirley, the Kee-glomeration could afford that.

[BigEvil]

Judging from many of the replies that I have seen to a discussion on Mags in the NXL I get the feeling that most want no part of it.