Offical LVL10, Reports from the Field Thread

[Troy]

First practice with LEVEL 10

For the setup see my previous post except i put the longest bolt spring in.

-efficiency-about 800 shots out of a 68 4500

-# of breaks- ZERO (aprox. 1500 rounds blaze paint) I tried to make it chop.

-problems- the bolt stuck on me acouple of times during the first two games. I turned the air off and on and it started working again. Then I ran a little oil through it and didn't have a problem the rest of the day.

-comments- Awesome. I broke alot of paint with the emag before this mod, that seems to be a thing of the past. It is like a completely different gun.

[manike]

At practice today I put my e-cocker aside and used my RT with level 10. Now this gun is set up with a stock single finger Carbon fibre trigger frame and let me state 'that I can no longer shoot single finger trigger frames on mechanical guns'

I've been corrupted by double triggers (have been using one since they first came out over 6 years ago!) and electro triggers. So my technique with a mechanical trigger and using just one finger sucked! I managed many short strokes and would normally have been breaking my share of paint.

I didn't break one ball all day! Even when fluffing the trigger there were still no broken balls. Puts an end to short stroking worries!

What makes this doubly amazing is that I was using 2 year old hellfire! yep two years old . It's stuff that I have had in my garage and spare room and attic and forgot about, I couldn't use it before because it was just too brittle and made a hell of a mess. Today, apart from the fact that it was sweating and some of it covered in a white powder it shot beautifully! (ask Jan and Jonneh hehehe) I shot a case and a bit of it with no problems or issues.

I wasn't using my Halo B either, just a normal rev with low batteries (didn't bother to change them as it was more of a test).

Several of the guys used to shoot RT's and were stunned. I asked one to put his finger in the breech and pulled the trigger, he jumped a mile before realising how little force there was. Their comment was 'wish they'd done that years ago'...

ok, a few issues have arrived with my set up though. I find the main tank reg needs to be giving a higher pressure to keep it all running right. I'm feeding it at about 800psi (which my AIR isn't too happy about... can't wait to get my Armageddon tank back from test).

Also to get the velocity I think the gun is now running very close to the relief valve pressure. Sometimes (with both of my RT's that I've had the level 10 in) the gun starts venting out the back of the velocity adjustment screw. By running at a little lower velocity it solves this but not always. Every now and then it starts venting again. I wonder if maybe you could increase the relief blow off point? I don't want to change to a shorter spring, if that means the bolt force is increased... (not sure if that would help this problem anyway?).

Also sometimes I get a slight leak down the powertube, by putting a very slight pressure on the trigger the leak then stops... I'm thinking this means that the little hole on the bolt plunger is very close to the carrier o-ring positions and pulling the trigger pushes the bolt back just slightly (before releasing it) and thus pushes the hole back behind the o-ring... now I'm thinking I could fix this by taking out a shim... only I don't have any shims at all in my RT set up

Other than that this does feel like a whole different gun! As Pandora points out the kick is seriously reduced over a normal RT also.

I use a vert feed body and there is way less blowback than the old set up also.

I can't wait for my extreme to be back from the annodisers! I also need to get an inteliframe for my RT, with a blade double trigger my vert feed RT will be perfect the perfect back up (and loaner) to my extreme e-mag!

manike

[marc]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly
less that 3 hours (no field adjusting was required)

-The type of gun you're using it on
Emag with warped feed

-Efficiency
unnoticible change

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used
0 breaks or chops out of 2000 paintball i found in my basement that are atleast 6 months old. types include JT, RP Premium, BigBall, RP thermal (what ever the name is, the kind u use in winter), and a few types i couldnt figure out what they were
-Any problems you encountered
one double feeding which broke a few feet from the barrel

[the123]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

15-20 minutes, #2 carrier, stock spring, approx. 800psi

-The type of gun you're using it on

E-mag with Classic Valve #02704 (about 11yrs. old, still had a spring for the PT spacer), #2 carrier and stock spring, Warpfeed w/ dual 9v's in Parallel, Halo Hopper

-Efficiency

Slightly less it seems.

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

Friday: 1300 cheapest Challenge Park Xtreme paint (Blaze I think, if anyone else knows, speak up) 0 and 0
Saturday: 1100 Nelson Challenger 0 and 0
Sunday: 1000 Nelson Nel-Splat 0 and 0, 600 RPS (2 years old, non-dryshell formula, shooting in runaway hybrid mode 16BPS) 0 chops 3 breaks, then used a straight shot, then put 300 nelson challenger 16bps runaway, 0 and 0
Monday: 300 Nelson Challenger 1 chop 0 breaks (another runaway demo for a friend of mine)

-Any problems you encountered

Tiny leak down barrel that goes away when I tap the side of the mainbody with my hand, or when I cycle the marker.
If the N2 tank output pressure is set too low it seems the gun will not shoot. A problem, only if your N2 regulator is inconsistant.

-Other general comments
I never thought my E-mag could go into runaway in Hybrid mode with the CLASSIC Mag valve!
My warp batteries are dying, i've put about 10,000 paintballs through the same batteries. This last test on monday pinched about 10-12 balls before chopping that single ball.
The past 3 weeks, i've shot close to 6 cases of paint, and with only 1 chop and 3 breaks with the Level 10 setup.

Everyone that has this kind of luck with THEIR Level 10 should send AGD a Thankyou card.

[than205]

Originally posted by the123
E-mag with Classic Valve #02704 (about 11yrs. old

For real your using an AIR valve in a E-mag?
I'm just curious, why?

Conversion emags used whatever stock valve you had. thats my guess here...Reminder though...DO NOT POST HERE unless reporting actual install experience! But I will leave this as a reminder. use PM or start a new thread if you want to ask questions to an individual user - cphilip

LOL! nice signature insert!

[Webmaster]

Bravo! Bravo!

I just got my Level 10 and I didnt have time to FULLY explore its potential - but this is what I found out:

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

About 20-30 min

-The type of gun you're using it on

Mr. Orange - My Emag

-Efficiency

Didn't shoot it enough to reach a conclusion

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

See report below

-Any problems you encountered

none (other than low on air)

-Other general comments

OK - I was very short on time - and low on air. But I took out the parts and got to work. It took about 15-20 min to swap the parts out - partly because I took it real slow as to not screw something up - and partly because I was distracted. I was doing this at my local store (the new warped sports in KC) and was showing of the new bolt etc to anyone who was with in 5 ft of me.

I put it together per Toms "fast start" instructions. Gassed it up - no leaks - no shooting either. Cranked the velociy probably a full turn or two (Tom - what is the operating pressue of the mag now with the level 10? Does this change the optimal length for barrel acceleration?)This resulted in the gun shooting. Took it out back with some free - but crappy "rec" paint. Chronoed 290-300ish. OK - good to go.

The Test!

Took some electrical tape and one of the rec balls. It was 2-3 bounce paint - not real brittle - but average for what you will find on many fields. Used the tape to put a ball in only 1/2 way. HOLY COW - THE BOLT BOUNCES OFF THE BALL! YAY IT WORKS! IT WORKS!!!

I dont know about everyone else - but I had LOW ball breakage in my emag w/warpfeed and pre BE Rev. BUT - I did managed to break ALOT in tournies due to A) not turning on the rev or B) not stopping when the rev was out of paint. No doubts - I would break if I managed to screw up and misfeed my gun.

My "idiot" test I ran was using the warp, emag on 16 bps semi, and turn the rev *off*. I jiggled the gun while fanning the trigger. It sputtered and burped and shot - but it got rid of the hopper with NO breaks!

I then decided to just rip a hopper with some paint at 16bps - out running the rev - but still having fun. Now here - I had about 3 barrel breaks - and the reason was I was LOW on air - i would get a ball stuck 1/2 way in the barrel and the second ball would smack into it. Im sure of this because I slowed down and watched this happen. It wasnt chopping!

I hope to this weekend go out and fine tune it to shoot paint thats so brittle from being frozen - more report to follow!

great job Tom - its a keeper!

[deepcover]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly
45-60 minutes.
-The type of gun you're using it on
RT w/Inteliframe
-Efficiency
Seems similar to before, but when I turn off the flatline, I get two shots, then nothing. No leak, no hiss, no anything. Guess that flatline gauge is really important.
-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used
0-500 RPS stored in my closet for the last few weeks.
-Any problems you encountered
I apperently didnt seat the oring in the carrier correctly, as the fit felt very tight, until I tried to fire. At first it wouldnt, until I cranked the velocity up, and then after four or five shots it started leeking horrendously.
-Other general comments
Rippin'. I would install the ORing, and try all of the carriers to see which two or three are the best. Then, check the markings to see sizes, if one is way off the others, dont consider using it.

[Krazy Ivan]

Originally posted by BlackVCG
Do not post in this thread unless you're reporting results from testing LVL 10.

Things we'll be looking for:

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

-The type of gun you're using it on

-Efficiency

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

-Any problems you encountered

-Other general comments

It took me about 15 minutes to get it up and running. 5-8 of them were trying to figure out what the diff. parts were. (I printed out the instructions but forgot to print the diagram outlining the parts).

I'm using my Minimag (Alice) with a evil reactor valve which does nothing. (Shows it works even with evil aftermarket parts)

For the Efficiency I did see a dropoff a little. It wasn't extremely noticable, but I get my tank topped off after every game.

I shot 1000 rounds of JT Maxim, and 1000 rounds of Inferno, I got zero breaks from chops/barrel

I didn't have any problems, and was overly happy when I thought that I would test it out hardcore, and took off my warp and revvy and finally found a use for that VL200 we get when we buy a new mag. Put that on the top and even though it didn't even come close to keeping up while I fanned the trigger, it didn't chop once! I was also using the Plastic nubbins if that also matters, I didn't double feed as others have.

[HarryM]

Results so far with the LVL10 are outstanding!

Since the team has upgraded 2weeks ago we have gone
through approx. 20cases of various brands of paint
and all types of feed systems from warps to vert.highrise
and there have been no chopping issues what so ever!
Gun types from RT's to Retro's and Emag's

There is aprox.a 10 to 20 percent loss in effeciency, however
the accuracy seems to have improved by at least 10 percent with the new super bolt so its definately an acceptable trade off not to mention NO CHOPPING!

Excellent work AGD!

Harry

[echoes]

Originally posted by BlackVCG
Do not post in this thread unless you're reporting results from testing LVL 10.

Things we'll be looking for:

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

-The type of gun you're using it on

-Efficiency

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

-Any problems you encountered

-Other general comments

It took me about 45 minutes to set it up in my minimag (with AIR valve). It took awhile because I had some issues with the main spring (see below). I followed the "Fast start" instructions, set it up with the 2 carrier, had barrel leaks, so I then switched to the 1.5 carrier and no longer had barrel leaks.

I've only fired it in my backyard a little bit so at this point I can't really comment on efficiency or actual game performance, however I really enjoyed sticking things into the breech and seeing the bolt bounce off.

I ran into some problems with velocity. I started with the clipped spring that came with the kit, and eventually switched down to my old bolt spring, which is the shortest one I had available. That was the only spring with which I could get the mag to fire without the regulator venting. Even then, my range of velocity adjustment was limited. What can I do to either A) increase the range of velocity adjustment with that spring, or B) get it to fire with the other springs, and without the regulator venting?

[manike]

The regulator venting has been a slight issue with my gun. But I was using the longest bolt spring and trying to set it as softly as possible while staying right at the velocity limit.

I'm curious as to what carrier everyone is using? Is it worth a seperate thread? (mods if it is please cut this out and start one) if not it would be nice for everyone who hasn't already stated it to do so.

I am using carrier 1.5, I was using 2 but brought it down (and thus tighter) after a slight barrel leak.

manike

[echoes]

After more tuning, I switched to the 2 carrier, and using my old mainspring, got a sufficient range of velocity adjustment that I think should be fine for indoor or outdoor.

For those who haven't yet tested, make sure that you really wear in the powertube o-ring that goes in the carrier.

Manike, I think people can just state in here what setup they used. Again, my setup was the 2 carrier, with my original mainspring.

[Krazy Ivan]

I used the 2 carrier, longest spring, with 900psi pressure, and the closest screwed in reg nut where it wouldn't blow off.

[wes]

[DiRTyBuNNy]

(Mods I'll delete this once you've had a chance to see it)

The one thing that people haven't been saying that i think maybe beneficial is what input pressure people are running. Manike had noted earlier that sometimes the gun starves without enough on the input side...so i was just wondering whether or not that also might be beneficial to Tom.