Offical LVL10, Reports from the Field Thread

[FreshmanBob]

First off this things awsome!

I'm using the 1.5 carrier with 2 shims and the short spring. All together i fired about 1300-1400 rounds without one single break or chop! Usually the bolt would push the paintball either all the way into the chamber and fire or out of it and dry fire if it wasn't quite there. I can even stick my pinky in the breech and fire, just goes pff an resets.

The only problem i found was that when first gasing up the gun i had to push the bolt back about an 8th of an inch then it worked great.

This things amazing! usually i would have had atleast 2 chops and 1 barrel break, but not anymore!

[DarkPhoenix]

UPDATE I went to my friendly paintball field for some more hardcore testing. My set-up is the 1.5 carrier, one shim and the original spring on my warp feed left E-mag (converted RT Pro) with warp feed and turborev board modified revolution. I have put over 6000 rounds through my E-mag today, brands including JT Maxim,Inferno, Midnight, Zap Pro and a year old case of brand X paint. All in all it was a fun and uneventfull day with not a single chop. Quite a surprise from my friends at the field who are use to seeing me walk off the field oozing paint from the barrel from my chopping paint. Now, I am just trying to find more brittle paint to shoot through it, as the most brittle paint the field offers (see above) has been shot through my E-mag. I will continue to update whenever I get more paint to shoot.

[VBmag87]

I am using the 1.5 carrier with 0 shims and the longest spring. I fired 350 shots, not sure what kind it is, well I had 0 breaks, 0 chops. Tomorrow I am going to put 1000 more through it and see what happens ,and do even more testing.

-Problems encountered
The only problems I had was when I first dry fired about 3 times, the foamie came flying out. So I had to reglue it after. And also there was a very small leak but after try fireing it for alittle bit that took care of it. Every thing else went pretty well from there.

-took me about 40 minutes
-68 mag P/f ,12 volt revy,I-frame, teardrop barrel,68/3000 800psi usally get around 750 shots.

--Gas Efficiency
Not really sure yet, going to get my tank refilled tomorrow and then I can probably tell and update on it. Not sure what my velocity is, but will find out soon.

LVL 10 is awsome!

[Evil Bob]

Tom....

It seemed to be about the perfect config for the markers I was working on, really gentle on the paint, didn't take much to stop the bolt. Basicly I never wanted to see a broken ball at the bolt again on these three markers. The normal spring just didn't seem to be forgiving enough for me.

I didn't have any major bolt stick problems until I hit that bag of really gritty paint in my EMag, this stuff was really dusty, I could feel it on my hand after loading up my tubes, and this was right out of a fresh box. The other three bags in the case were just fine. When I got home, the bolt and spring were really grimey, more so then usual. Oiling up regularly between games really seems to go along way.

Went out today to another field, their field limit is 300 fps, dialed in at 295, was +/- 3 fps all day long. Burned through 2 and half cases of Diablo Hellfire, 0 chops/0 breaks.

Quotes from today...

A player on pink team as I walk by: "I hear there is someone on yellow with an E-mag, I bet he doesn't get to play very often with all the paint he breaks"
3 guys standing near him start chanting "blender, blender, blender, blender..."
I salute them with a big grin on my face. In game I took out one of his buddies on the right tape as he's making a move for the 50 yard bunker, tagged him on the run with a long string of paint, yelled for my teammates to give me cover fire and boogied for the bunker he had just vacated, got angles on their whole front line, shot 5 out in short order. At the end of the game I walked past the same four players, I was chanting "e-mag, e-mag, e-mag, e-mag..." with a big stupid grin on my face :)

Ref comes up to me after game three, it's Mike, a guy I've known and played with for over 10 years: "Been alot of complaints that you're shooting full auto, I know you have a stock EMag so I know that aint possible. Mind if I check it out?"
"Sure thing."
He rips a long string of paint, sounded like around 10 bps... "Oh... My....God....... that aint right."
He hands it back, I take it and rip a faster and longer string.... no hickups, no chops, nothing, just a long string of Hellfire hitting a narrow tree 30 feet away. I turn back to Mike and say "Level 10 warpfed HALO goodness."
"You're shooting Hellfire?"
"Yep."
Mike turns and walks away without saying a single word, the expression on his face was priceless.

After lunch I moved from the speedball field to the woods, so did the first 4 guys I ran into at the first game. Flanked left, took out three guys who didn't even know I was there, shot out 3 people in the flag station, pulled the flag, then came down the opposite side of the field. Ran into my 4 buddies on the left tape, butt shot two of them before they even knew I was there.
One of them yells: "Oh poop-poop-de-do! Its the Emag guy!"
Shot the remaining two out. Came out with the flag over my shoulder only to get shotout by my own team, gotta love rec ball :) Game ends 5 minutes later when the 12 year old who shot me out returned the flag to our base.
Back in the staging area I'm reloading and chilling out. My 4 buddies approach me, they're wanting to take a serious look at the EMag/Warp/HALO rig I'm running. Showed them how LVL 10 works and let them shoot it at the chrono station. 4 new Automag converts...

-Evil Bob

[Panzerr]

Level 10 installed on a Triggernomics ReTro Mag

2 shims
standard bolt spring

Installation took about 30 minutes. One thing I'd like to add...If you have it gassed up and your marker does not leak, but when you pull the trigger and the bolt only goes slightly forward and either does not reset itself or resets itself, you need to turn up your velocity.

I shot a 2000 rnd case of Kick'n paint without a single break. The paint is a medium shell. The temp was in the 80s and the humidity was very, very high. In fact it was so humid that the paint would swell shortly after taking it out of the bag. Most of the case (1500) was shot during play. The remaing 500 were shot as fast as possible. I shot an entire hopper with my loader off and not a single break.

I haven't used this product enough to tell if there is a difference in efficiency.

I am very impressed and have a new found love for my mag.

[1_BAD_TAZ]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

It took me about 2 hours while reading the instructions from Tom. Then took to proshop to get the Automag expert to help fine tune it. That took another hour or two.

-The type of gun you're using it on

Automag classic with Auto Response (no more paint soup). I need a faster loader then my 9 volt it can't keep up with the A/R

-Efficiency

About the same.

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

0 breaks 0 chops blaze and team colors. a couple of breaks when we held the ball there and kept firing. (side note 6 hits in tourney paint and it will break)

-Any problems you encountered

none pretty simple with the instructions from Tom. The Proshop just changed the carrier to make it so it doesn't break tourney paint.

-Other general comments

Level 10 is well worth the cash unless you have never choped a ball. I also love telling people i don't carry a squegee anymore go find a ref.

[mxracer33x]

Level 10 Installation - ReTro Minimag

Installation Time: About 30 minutes.

#1 carrier (1.5 had a very small leak when pushing the bolt around)
Long Spring
1 Shim

Shot 1000 rds of Anarchy - 0 breaks/ 0 chops
Shot 500 rds of Great American - 0/0

Efficiency: First time using a new tank. Switched from a 47ci nitro duck to a 68ci Flatline. No accurate measurement but I got about 600 out of my 68ci and I used to get 600 out of my 47ci w/o Lvl 10. So I believe it is a bit less efficient. Not to bad

Problems: The first part of the day the marker worked flawlessly. After I removed the valve to show some Mag Haters why they were getting smoked all day I had a few issues. After shooting a few shots, then waiting 15 seconds or so, the next shot would be extremely low pressure the next shot would shoot 2 balls, then everything was fine till it was rested again. I could not detect any leaks and the tank was full and regulated pressure was showing 850 psi. I have yet to be able to go through the marker to see if I could find anything else wrong. Any ideas would be appreciated. (I tried re-oiling it)

[rx2]

UPDATE
Efficiency: Roughly 800 reliable shots from a 3K fill. Just a bit less than before.

[jb1363]

The level ten arived and within ten minutes it was up and running. we (me and sniper1rfa) used the quick start guide. our set up uses the medium spring, two shims, and the 1-1/2 carrier. we had NO problems whatsoever with an old level 7.

we shot about 500 rounds of mixed old, crappy, 2 bounce TC and old crappy marbs. the only problem (sorry, i lied) we had was that some of the paint was so swollen the bolt could not push it into the breech. we had one break because a good (read: better) ball slammed into a stuck one. no chops though. i doubt this will be a problem with good paint. BTW, sniper1rfa, who cannot shoot a mag to save his life, put the thing through its paces, stopping the bolt on paint every 5th shot or so.

we ran about 350 shots through it and the 68 ci tank whent from 2300 psi to about 1200 psi. noticeably worse, but not too bad. ran fine with a screw in preset tank.

also, the foamie is still kickin', though i doubt it is necessary with this kit.


now excuse me while i go shoot my finger some more (im out of paint).

[athomas]

Well. I got my two level 10's today.

Emag:

First installation into my emag Installation took about 40 min to get it right (including shim tweaking). It may take more to get it perfect.

I tried the a couple of different carriers ending up with a number two. The carrier initially felt tight, but the next larger one leaked air. The number 2 carrier performs well though so it must be the proper fit.

Next came the shims. I held the bolt while pulling the trigger to see what effect each of the shims had. I found that 5 shims caused constant leakage out the barrel, 4 worked but leaked if the bolt was bumped or if the trigger was slightly pressed. 3 shims provided crisp control without premature leakage . There really wasn't much difference in feel between 2 shims and 3 shims except that the air would vent quicker in the event of a blockage if the 3 shims were used instead of 2.

I've stayed with the short stock spring. I haven't got a chrono so I can't play with the settings properly until the weekend.

Update: Well, I couldn't wait so I purchased a chrono. I played with the settings and ended up using the middle(cut) spring. I am able to shoot about 285 consistently without missing a shot due to a tight ball. The largest spring wouldn't shoot when the velocity was consistently below 300. With the middle spring the impact on the ball is very light and gentle. I believe I have found Nirvana in my emag.

Update: I had the emag in a tounament today June 13/2002. When setting it up to chrono using the standard RT chrono method, it would cough with a ball in the chamber. When I fired normally, it seemed to work fine. I though I might be close to the edge of performance so I cut about 1/4 inch of spring steel off the middle spring (not 1/4 inch of length) that I was using. I was able to chrono properly after that with no coughing. After breaking it in it seems to work better and I may have to order another proper middle spring.

I shot about 1200 rounds in 5 games playing 3 on 3. I busted a ball in the breech at the start of the second game. It didn't look like a chop but it made a mess. Other than that it rocked and it felt good. Lots of mag users were at the tourny and I was spreading the news.


I noticed a slight metal on metal sound when manually pushing the bolt in and out of the power tube. It had a rougher feel than normal. Maybe its just something due to tighter tolerences and will smooth itself during break-in. Anyone else notice this? It doesn't seem to affect the operation. I just don't like the feel of metal on metal. Update. The metal contact was between the new power tube tip and the inside of the new bolt. Contact was being made at the front outside edge of the round section of the power tube tip, and only on one side. It'll probably smooth itself out. I'll be keeping an eye on it for wear.

I tried shooting with a squeegy held down the front of the emag against the bolt. That way I could get a feel for the pressure applied to the ball. The pressure is very gentile until about the 3/4 past the feed neck. You can feel the difference by varying the end of the squeegy when you fire. Its quite amazing.

I can see that my chopping problem will be eliminated or at least reduced even if a generic setup is used. I'll be fine tuning mine through a range of settings. Whats the use of a beta tester if I don't put it through its paces. See above comments now that I've updated.

Automag:

I've installed the second level 10 bolt kit into an old 1993 vintage level 7 automag using the stock spring. Set-up time was about 30 min. I figured it would be much quicker the second time but it takes time to time test spacer settings.

Again, I settled on the number 2 carrier. The next larger one was too finicky. It would work but had random leakage problems.

I installed the shims and again settled on 3 shims that provided the best control close to the venting point without leakage during partial trigger pulls.




Complete details will follow once I have access to a chrono. Done, see above in Emag section.

Not one chopped ball yet in 500 rounds fired without a battery in my revy, although I have yet to use bad paint.

One thing I have noticed is that you have to be a little more careful when you set your gun down. If you lean it on the barrel, it may leak a little air out the front.

Level 10 rocks.

[rudy]

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42317

EDIT
Another day of play with hell fire today I decided to take out 1 ship putting me at 2 and I had no problems no breaks no chops we were shootign at 250fps though

[FrAuStY]

Installed my Lvl10 in 15 minutes using 1.5 carrier, 3 shims and longest spring. Let me tell you..this thing is VERY gentle.

Gun:
Automag 68 A.I.R. Valve MM body. 68/3k Flatline

Efficiency:
Slightly less than without lvl10. I get about 800 rounds out of a full 300 fill.

Breaks/Chops:
Using Severe (crappy) two color... 1 bounce field paint. I used this saturday..and all I can say is... "Amazing!" There were times I knew I would have chopped if it weren't for this bolt kit. I could hear the gun hiss then the next pull pop out comes the ball. Never had two fir wat the same time though. It started to rain a little making the paint real sketchy..and it never once chopped. I showed it off to everyone at my field and most were like Holy SH&& I can't believe you're gonna stick yer finger in there. I was like..well this is a lvl10 not a standard lvl7 mag... then their mouths hit the ground when I fired repeatedly with my finger in the breach. I also jammed a ball half in the feed tube with the barrel twisted a little to hold it in place....let everyone fire it as many times as they wanted and it never chopped the ball. Even though it was kinda squishy from the moisture in the air due to the rain. All in all... love it. Gonna sell it every chance I get.

Any problems encountered:
None.

I will have step by step pics up on my website of installation of LVL10. Tomorrow..

[joeyjoe367]

-How long it took you to get it installed and what your configuration was to get it working properly

Well, it took me about 40 mins (Yeah, i'm a bit slow) to get it working correctly. For some reason or another, I couldn't really get it to shoot higher than 270 fps, but that might have been my paint/bore match, and the fact that I'm using a boomstick (2pc); air would vent out back if turned up any higher.

Used #2 carrier, 1 shim, and STD MainSpring <---- Weird. Someone explain to me?

-The type of gun you're using it on

Mini-Mag, Classic Valve, Intelliframe, 68/3000 ACI Bulldog (Old Style), Warp Feed, Boomstick (std. Brrl ID: .688)

-Efficiency

DIdn't shoot enough to get good numbers.

-Number of breaks/chops and type of paint used

I was Just messing around @ my friend's place with 1 yr old Diablo Blaze. about 200 rnds, 0 chops, 0 breaks. I tried the paintball w/tape thing, and couldn't get it to chop. not expecially brittle paint, but good enough anyways.

-Any problems you encountered

Had a hard time setting it up. Couldn't get velocity over 270 fps, but probably because of very loose fit paint, and 2 pc barrel.

For some reason or another, Using the standard (normal mag) main-spring worked best for me.

-Other general comments

Very Very nice. I like the lack of recoil that I experienced. Not a previous super-bolt I user, so I have nothing to complain about. I'll probably pick up another bag of paint, and tinker with it a bit more, perhaps use a longer spring. I ran out of air (2000 psi) after getting the thing to work, and shooting a hopper of paint. 'still a bit pissed about the lil' low velocity, but I'll have to deal with it.

Paint wouldn't chop in it, however when I put my finger in the breech, I noticed that it kinda hurt when my finger was in the far side of the breech (away from the bolt). I think I wanna get it a bit slower.

Tried the dollar trick, and it sorta worked.

[paintballisking]

love it

ok the set up a minimag with the
1.5 carrier and 2 shimms longest spring

took me about an hour total to the time of firing paint through it

fired about 50 shots through it due to lack of compressed air the shoots went through very cleanly didn't chop but in wierd angles it did pop out two balls (BETTER THAN PAINT IN THE BARREL LIKE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN) didn't get a chance to crono it but by looking at the ball speed and sound it sounded like a good fps.

recomendations to knew buyers
get the bolt i have an impulse and i was going to say bye to my mini but it is sooo hard now i might just have to have that as my back up gun and if i got the retro valve it would be a tough desicion on witch to use in tourneys.

[1_BAD_TAZ]

I finally got the auto response trigger working on my classic automag. This combined with the Level 10 is OMG seweet. My only issue now is that i need to get a better hopper since my current one can't keep up. That is not a hard problem to fix. I love this anti chop level 10.