*video* racegun cocker at 20bps

[ddindc]

I didn't say anything about WGP being ahead of the curve, they ain't, but their gun is infiniatly more tunable and its shot characteristcs, out of the box, are far better than any AGD gun. There's just no argument there as long as you've had the chance to shoot both guns. As for speed, the RT is really fast...really fast at chopping paint. I'd rather have a gun that I know will send paint where I want it to go than a gun that can arc and chop paint real quick. So AGD is trying to fix those problems, great, good for them. It only took them ten years to do it. Actually, it took a lot less time than that, they spent the first 9 and 1/2 years denieing there was any problem at all. At this rate, Mags will shoot flat in 2012. So, by my accounts,. I got another ten years of smoking mag guys before I got to worry. If AGD gets its stuff together, great, I'll bnuy a mag. But it don't, and I wont.

[AcemanPB]

Originally posted by ddindc
Really, "numerous test"? Performed by who? Oh, right, AGD. "Listen, don't believe your eyes, believe our biased test results!" I don't care how many tests AGD does, they still can't win over pros, the guys who make thier living on their markers. That speaks volumes. But everyone is entitled to their opinion, as long as their opinion is based on some rediculous brand loyalty. I shoot whatever shoots the best. AGD makes a marker as accurate and long as the 'cocker, I'll start shooting mags again. Till then, I'm getting a cocker. You guys can keep waiting and waiting and waiting for that extreme mag. Maybe switching over to a cocker barrel will flatten out that mag trajectory.

nope wasn't AGD, if i remeber right it was WARPIG who did this test.

i do not believe AGD would purposley cheat us out, nor do i with any other respected paintball company

yeah but cockers must be preety amazing if they can defy physics, the same physics by wich all other mater acts by



usally i leave arguments like this alone but hey i'm bored

[ddindc]

Maxim said the Extreme was the best gun in the world. Must be true then. But you're right, that's why pros play exclusivly with mags, cause of their fantastic shot characteristics. Oh, wait, they don't. Man, keep buying guns based on bench tests, and I'll smoke you everytime. And you say the Race is an effort to keep upwith the times? What do you call the mag? Its an RT with an electro grip. No inovation there. Boyahh figured it out about three years ago. Cocker threads? Well, that's self explanitory. Level ten? Trying to mimic a low volume gun. In the electro dept, there a numerous guns that are YEARS ahead of the Emag, Extreme mag Or what ever othe variant they can come up with. The mag better be able to shoot 20bps, cause you need to spew that much paint to get a kill with those things.

[paintslinger]

oh yea and just ever pro player uses a cocker...i donno about u but it seems angels now outnumber both mags and cockers. and oh no guess what angels are open bolt. now its imposible for an open bolt gun to be better than the all mighty closed bolt gun

[AcemanPB]

man you really are hard headed


Same paint to barrell, Same FPS, DIFFERENT guns = THE SAME TRAJECTORY


cockers cannot magicly defy physics go ask bud orr! go ask your science teacher! go ask anyone!

[DarkRipper]

Re: DR

Originally posted by ddindc
DR, did you buy a complete gun built by Racegun, or just the frame? I'm thinking about getting a 'cocker, my first ever I'm torn between a mechanical cocker (a Works), or the new Racegun Half-Block. What do you think?

I got it set up like this from Pro Paintball. Actually, I got it used from someone else who bought it at World Cup 2k1 from Pro Paintball setup like this, to be exact.

I think the halfblock racegun is going to be an astounding little gun, lots of firepower in a small package. They've gotten them up to 17.5 bps with a Halo B and the anti-chop eye on full auto.

Gotta love that.

:)
DR

[ddindc]

They don't defy physics, there's just more factors to trajectory than velocity and pressure. Physics equations are written with the assumption that, when all things are equal in a vacuum, then this will be the behavior of matter. All things are not equal in mags and cockers. First, the big difference, open bolt vs. closed. Second, different barrel system. Third, different volumes. There are probably hundred of other minute, but no less influencial, differences that are not accounted for or tested. Out of the box, a cocker shots flatter and farther than a mag. Try it yourself, I have. Its the reason I'm getting a cocker. As far as angels vs. cockers. First, you are admitting that pros don't play with mags, but prefer angels. You are therefor admiting that Angels are (in the eys of pros) better than mags and cockers. Angels have a huge advantage over a cocker; they're electros. Even in the limited firing mode (semi), they fire much faster than a cocker. However, there are still a tremendous number of pros that, even in the era of electros, shoot cockers-a testament to their ability. I am, of course, taking your assumption (that more pros shot angels than cockers) at face value; I don't know if its true or not. Whether it is or isn't is irrelevant, since we are talking about mags. And the undeniable truth is: of those who can shot whatever they wish (pros) more chose to shot cockers than mags by a large majority. Now you can all sit around and try and come up with excuses as to why this is, but I wouldn't bother; whole threads are devoted to this question and the "enigma" has yet to be solved. (Psst, here a hint: cockers are better markers than mags)

[ddindc]

Thanks DR. How the trigger feel? How low can you shoot the gun? Iheard you need to up the volume a bit

[Butterfingers]

Originally posted by ddindc
Maxim said the Extreme was the best gun in the world. Must be true then. But you're right, that's why pros play exclusivly with mags, cause of their fantastic shot characteristics. Oh, wait, they don't. Man, keep buying guns based on bench tests, and I'll smoke you everytime. And you say the Race is an effort to keep upwith the times? What do you call the mag? Its an RT with an electro grip. No inovation there. Boyahh figured it out about three years ago. Cocker threads? Well, that's self explanitory. Level ten? Trying to mimic a low volume gun. In the electro dept, there a numerous guns that are YEARS ahead of the Emag, Extreme mag Or what ever othe variant they can come up with. The mag better be able to shoot 20bps, cause you need to spew that much paint to get a kill with those things.

LOL you have FACTS to prove your babble.

Mecanically the RT is years ahead of any marker ever produced. It is the only valve system capable of producing a ROF of 26 BPS with NO shootdown whatsoever and will continue to cycle faster. Hands down it is currently the fastest gun PERIOD.

There are advantages to electro sear actuation. One being response time. Electricity flows a heck of alot faster than air.

Another being the ability to go to manual overide

It is also more reliable.

Other than being "not in" or not "cool" electro sear actuation is superior to pnumatic actuation given the right valve combo.

You quote accuracy and range and trajectory. Sorry Issac Newton proved you wrong centuries ago. His laws still apply to all appliactions of physics and are responsible for such precise calculations such as guided weaponry and space shuttle launches. I guess cockers defy physics huh?

Level 10 is not trying to mimic a low volume gun. You should do some research before blabing out nonsense like an idiot. Level 10 was a culmination of scientific research that determined that bolt speed NOT pressure had to do with ball breakage. In fact the firing pressure of the gun was determined to be irrelevant to the probability a gun broke a ball. Level 10 is not trying to mimic low volume or low pressure in any way it still fires using the same pressure the mechanics are just built in a way in which bolt speeds are dramatically reduced. Hey scinence works belive it or not...

When people continue to deny undeniable evidence its somthing psychiatrists call DENIAL. You are too caught up in marketing hype to realize the truth.

So instead of spouting out random babble why dont you give me evidence on why your reasons are correct...

Cause you can't...

What do you want a gun that is "in" or a gun that performs?

[Butterfingers]

Originally posted by ddindc
They don't defy physics, there's just more factors to trajectory than velocity and pressure. Physics equations are written with the assumption that, when all things are equal in a vacuum, then this will be the behavior of matter. All things are not equal in mags and cockers. First, the big difference, open bolt vs. closed. Second, different barrel system. Third, different volumes. There are probably hundred of other minute, but no less influencial, differences that are not accounted for or tested. Out of the box, a cocker shots flatter and farther than a mag. Try it yourself, I have. Its the reason I'm getting a cocker. As far as angels vs. cockers. First, you are admitting that pros don't play with mags, but prefer angels. You are therefor admiting that Angels are (in the eys of pros) better than mags and cockers. Angels have a huge advantage over a cocker; they're electros. Even in the limited firing mode (semi), they fire much faster than a cocker. However, there are still a tremendous number of pros that, even in the era of electros, shoot cockers-a testament to their ability. I am, of course, taking your assumption (that more pros shot angels than cockers) at face value; I don't know if its true or not. Whether it is or isn't is irrelevant, since we are talking about mags. And the undeniable truth is: of those who can shot whatever they wish (pros) more chose to shot cockers than mags by a large majority. Now you can all sit around and try and come up with excuses as to why this is, but I wouldn't bother; whole threads are devoted to this question and the "enigma" has yet to be solved. (Psst, here a hint: cockers are better markers than mags)

I am a physyics minor and I can tell you the only thing that makes a lick of diffrence is the angle of departure and the velocity given the same environment.

Its common sense if two identical projectiles have a velocity of 300 fps 1 foot in front of the gun you are telling me that one gun has magical effects that can warp the properties of a projectile...

I think not.

Stop reading marketing hype. Its called projectile motion.

http://www.pbstar.com/randebtherre.html

http://www.pbstar.com/semiauto1.html Compare them they are largely the SAME.



Want proof... Independent tests. Again you have shown me nothing...

The "factors" you have quoted have absolutely NO effect on the flight of the ball. Its not just knowing physics its knowing what laws to apply.

What you are saying is similar to saying: "Trucks can fly because of the turbulance that is caused under its big tires which causes lift. I know trucks can fly because it has big tires and a huge engine which gives it lift. You cant say that trucks cant fly because there are too many variables out there that are not accounted for in a truck's ability to fly."

Big tires and a huge engine on trucks obviously play no bearing on a truck's ability to fly.

Again and again science has proven this range and trajectory nonsense babble WRONG and people continue to deny it.

Its like a religion. Its like taking away your god.

[FaSSt]

Originally posted by ddindc
......

[ddindc]

Do you ride the short bus to school? Do you have to wear a helmet, even when you arn't riding a bike? First, read my last couple of posts. You accuse me of buying the hype? Keep sucking Tom Kaye's cck and believe everything he tells you while you get out-gunned every weekend. Who needs to shot 20bps? People who can't hit the broadside of a barn. You're not even allowed to in a tourny. Who needs accuracy? Everyone. Range? Everyone. I said it once and I'll say it again. As far as mimicing low volume, what I mean is the gentle nature of the bolt on the ball. Wow you can put your finger in the barrel of a mag. You know how long you'v ebeen able to do that with a cocker? A Timmy? Keep catching up, AGD. Like I said: some people use physics as an excuse (Tom Kaye), others just apply it. How long did AGD deny the mag's chopping problem? How many different ways did they explain it away? What's changed? Now all of a sudden it IS a problem, and (surprise), they have an solution. Now all you have to do is wait a year or two and you might be able to buy it.

[Butterfingers]

Originally posted by ddindc
Do you ride the short bus to school? Do you have to wear a helmet, even when you arn't riding a bike? First, read my last couple of posts. You accuse me of buying the hype? Keep sucking Tom Kaye's cck and believe everything he tells you while you get out-gunned every weekend. Who needs to shot 20bps? People who can't hit the broadside of a barn. You're not even allowed to in a tourny. Who needs accuracy? Everyone. Range? Everyone. I said it once and I'll say it again. As far as mimicing low volume, what I mean is the gentle nature of the bolt on the ball. Wow you can put your finger in the barrel of a mag. You know how long you'v ebeen able to do that with a cocker? A Timmy? Keep catching up, AGD. Like I said: some people use physics as an excuse (Tom Kaye), others just apply it. How long did AGD deny the mag's chopping problem? How many different ways did they explain it away? What's changed? Now all of a sudden it IS a problem, and (surprise), they have an solution. Now all you have to do is wait a year or two and you might be able to buy it.

LOL, I see you are slamming me not the ideas good job... way to show your ignorance...

Try applying some science... and again wheres your proof OH YOU HAVE NONE!

I like how you claim physics is an "excuse" sorry bud the laws of physics govern the phenomenon in our universe.

So where is what you have done.

1) You have provided no proof

2) You continue to deny the natural laws of the universe

3) You make attacks toward me to try to cover up for your lack of evidence.

Heres a quote from Websters:

"An unconscious defense mechanism characterized by refusal to acknowledge painful realities, thoughts, or feelings.
The act of disowning or disavowing; repudiation."

Sorry Physics is REAL

[ddindc]

He's a physics MINOR! Gosh, I'm honored. Guess you'll be publishing that "string theory" stuff pretty soon, huh? So what's that like? Do you get a degree for that, or is it just something to put on your resume. Keep on keepin' on, guys. Maybe one day you can (gasp) touch the hand of Tom Kaye! Pathetic. Keep counting the days for the extreme mag. Then at least you will have somehting worth a damn; a cocker barrel. Oh, and by the way, I've owned a mag for four years. No mechanical problems, everything was fine. Then one day I played with a cocker. I was blown away by how much more accurate it was. Its range. I don't even own one yet. I didn't chop. I didn't arc. No more sliced balls ripping off at 40 degrees. Amazing.

[ddindc]

Where's YOUR science?