Makers looking like real guns? good/bad??

[TRIAD]

This sport is made to be fun, and the markers are made to be function for the sport. That is how markers should be created. Most people, with the exception of new paintball members, would NOT want to use one of these on a regular basis, for the simple fact that they were not created with paintball in mind.

The weapons these guns are modeled after were created for long-range (in comparison to paintball) combat. They were NOT created to be used at short range. Thus, companies make these to target a very small (in my opinion) niche in the paintball market.

Secondly, assuming they made paintball guns after close-quarters guns such as the MP-5, I would still disagree with it. Paintball guns should be made to play paintball, NOT to make it look more military-like. Sure, it may LOOK good to some people, but let's be realistic. Would you rather have a "non-military" look to paintball, and be able to play? Or would you like to bring these militarily-modeled paintball guns into the sport at the risk of paintball being banned?

I will NEVER buy one of these markers, for the simple fact that I buy a paintball gun for functionality (and somewhat looks). I have not, and will NEVER buy a paintball gun so that I can "feel" more military-like. If I want to be in the military, I'll join the United States Armed Forces. If I want to play paintball, I'll buy a paintball marker that functions well on the field, and looks nice showing to others.

For those of you who have bought or will be buying a paintball marker that resembles an actual firearm, be forwarned: You are putting yourself in the utmost of danger and doing a disservice to the sport of paintball. Police officers will NOT mess around with you if they think you're carrying a real gun. For those of you not following the news about the sniper in the Washing area, one of the suspected weapons is an M-16 with scope. These paintball markers resemble that weapon, and a police officer will acknowledge it as such.

So, for the sake of the sport and the safety of those who partake in it, paintball markers should NOT be modeled after real firearms. This greatly hinders the image we are trying to portray of our sport, and endangers its players. If these markers became popular, the outcome will be something we do not want to imagine.

Buy it for practicality, not for looks.

[cledford]

As someone who has been involved with defending the 2nd amendment for over a decade, a former police officer and someone who started playing this sport almost at it's beginning (1987) I can say that IT DOES NOT MATTER IF THE GUNS LOOK REAL OR NOT. You can get shot by a police officer just as easy when brandishing an outlandishly colored marker as an A-5. In the dusk/dark it does not matter. To the uninformed soccer mom - in broad daylight - they CANNOT ever tell the difference - and probably wouldn't want to try if they could. The simple point is that NO ONE EVER should be brandishing/displaying ANY marker ANY WHERE except: home, store, or field.

Second, there are plenty out there who hate our sport and WILL NEVER accept it because we (regardless of what terms we use) shoot (mark) other people (players) to kill (eliminate) them using guns (gas powered markers). If you think annoing your Emag pink is going to change the minds of the anti-PBers (a faction of the anti-gun crowd) you are HUGELY mistaken. It is not the marker (or the look of the marker) that they are upset with, it is what they see as the anti-social behavior underpinning the whole game. Lets face it, these same people have a problem with football, want outcome based education, love "hate crime" and other feel good legislation - and you think that they will ever accept paintball as a true sport because your cocker is barney colored? Get real.

The simple fact is that there are a lot of people who enjoy the realism of the "look alike" markers. these people support the sport by purchasing equipment, buying paint and air, and playing at your local field. They SUPPORT your right to play through their activities - even if it doesn't seem that way since your paths never cross. The Antis will never support the sport at all and if you think they'll make exceptions for one group who wears bright uniforms and has pretty blue "markers" over another group with black ones you are wrong. The truth is the "real looking marker" crowd helps keep the sport alive, and the Antis try to make it go away - so who should you support?

One of the reasons it was so easy to ban real guns in the UK was that all the different shooting sports all looked down on each other and had no unity. When the Antis tried disarming one, the others buried their heads in the sand and were thankful that the zealots weren't coming for them - but the next time they were. The same could happen with paintball - writing off one group because you don't understand, support, or like their style of play is short sighted - because in the end it is the numbers that matter and when you sacrifice players (of any type) up front you've got less to stand up when the final assault on your rights comes. Ben Franklin said "you can hang together, or you'll hang separately." The point is that if we divide into "us" and "them", they might get taken out first, but once the milsim/scenario guys are gone, who do you think the soccer moms are coming after next?

Up until recently I didn't care for the milsim markers, but am now looking into purchasing an AT10. I also just bought a Tippmann 203 grenade launcher. These guns add a very real, and very fun level of excitement to the Big/scenario style game. As a former military and law enforcement guy I (along with a lot of other people police or military background or not) really enjoy the realism and I am looking forward to getting into this new (for me) area of paintball.

As far as people outside our country - I'm sorry for your luck - but it's not our fault your government is so out of control that they can dictate what you PLAY GAMES with just because of the way SOMETHING LOOKS. Luckily, in the country where I live I can own an AR15 (civilian version of M-16) and I can also own the NON-LETHAL marker version as well. Every time I read an article about paintball over in Europe I see disgustingly smug statements about how you guys "cleaned up" paintballs image by leading the way with: getting out of the woods, banning camouflage, making markers look less dangerous, promoting speedball - yet you are still on the brink of being banned in your own countries. My take is that if you guys had STOOD UP for your rights, instead of pussing out and giving in to garner favor with those that ultimately seek to destroy your past-time, then you'd be far better off today.

Cphil, you and I both heard Tom's law suit story in Pittsburgh. It was obvious to me that ANYONE can be sued in the US ANYTIME regardless of how frivolous - so what's the use worrying about it?

-Calvin

[cphilip]

Originally posted by cledford
Cphil, you and I both heard Tom's law suit story in Pittsburgh. It was obvious to me that ANYONE can be sued in the US ANYTIME regardless of how frivolous - so what's the use worrying about it?

-Calvin

He as a manufacturer worried about it. And his conclusion in that issue was to not make em!

[Bulldog]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Bulldog
I think it's a bad idea, if I saw someone carring that gun down the street, he wouldn't have long before he had my gun aimed at him, and not much longer before he got shot.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



While I agree that making paintball markers look like firearms is a bad idea, I for one sure hope you aren't a cop, and I'll leave it at that.

hitech, I didn't mean to sound so militant, I just wanted to convey the thought that I think these markers are a bad idea and look to realistic, but theres no way I'm gonna risk not coming home to my family just cause it might or might not be a paint marker. That pic boomer posted looks like a real gun to me, to real.

[Skoad]

to be honest i don't think it matters. About a month ago I went to my grandma's house after getting my tank filled ato the pro shop and my aunt was there. The first thing she said was "Is that a bomb?" I bet some people who don't know what a paintball gun looks like in the first place may mistake it for a real gun.

Airsoft guns look like real guns anyway, i wouldn't worry about it.

[bsolomon]

Almost happened yesterday

You don't have to look too hard to already see cases where this type of thing is already a problem.

Yesterday's news had a report of a police officer who observed a young boy running down a street carrying what appeared to be a very real firearm. The police officer drew his service weapon and took up the chase. He then was forced to disarm the boy. Luckily the crying child did as he was told and dropped what he was carrying, which turned out to be an AirSoft Sig Sauer P228 (9mm) replica. Many of the AirSoft "guns" look even more realistic than the paintball variants because they can don't have to shoot a 68 caliber projectile, and therefore their barrels and magazines are more to scale.

This story could have easily ended very badly...

[rudy]

I have not had time to read all the post but here is my take.

A do you hear of people gettign shot all the time while playing airsoft? well i dont and thier guns are usually made to look exactly like real guns. Stores sell little kids cap guns and everything all the time only difference is a red tip on the barrel. half the kids pop the red tip off right away. do kids get shot all the time? not really.
im not worried about people getting shot if they got shot it was someone being stupid either the shooter or the person with the look alike. and they could of avoided. there is also common sense. None of my guns look like real guns. but guess what when i transport then i do so in a bag or hidden from view. at college i make sure its dissassembled before i goto the bathroom to clean it.

no the real question was not is it safe but is it good or bad for the sport. and some of you may have seen my arguement before. There are way more people who get into the sport for its war like properties in one year then paintball has probably seen in its entire life on the other side. So I think they are good for the sport. for somepeople a guy running around looking like a clown with all his colors just looks rediculous. they need to live the fantasy of the sport, then they can through good role models merge into the other game styles.

Look at it this way how many people do you know that play counterstrike. thats right probably alot more then you know play more advanced games like tribes2, halflife deathmatch. but guess what HLDM would probably be dead now if it werent for the few cs players that trickle over. Cs is a game that was built to similate something more real. but it was not made to be a highly skilled game at a personal level. thats ok. I wont go and say that cs ruined multiplayer gaming in a few years the players will advance to more demanding games. and there will be more money and players then ever could be imagined before.

this is true of paintball they may be newbies and they may not be competitive but some of them mature into those players some of them never do but they still drive the paintball economy by playing the way they like too, and in the end for most of the players its just about having fun, and living a fantasy

[rudy]

also if you want to change the sport for the better start with the people who should know enough to be able to be changed. the tourney scene is what needs to changed. the feilds the playstyle its got to be more spectator friendly that meas less sitting around dumping 2000 rounds a game so a guy can move and more action that people can watch. it also means clean up the cheating clean up the language clean up the basically everything that is tournament paintball.

[Ov3rmind]

I agree with you, TRIAD, 100%. I see no point to these milsim paintball markers, the only effect I could see it having is a negative one. What do you possibly have to gain my owning one of these? You want to be a soldier, go join the army and serve this country. You want to play paintball? Use the equipment the way it was supposed to be used and get rid of your newbish "sniper" fantasies.

The possible negative effects have already been stated by other AO members to a great extent, so I don't see a need to elaborate on them.

[Ov3rmind]

also if you want to change the sport for the better start with the people who should know enough to be able to be changed. the tourney scene is what needs to changed. the feilds the playstyle its got to be more spectator friendly that meas less sitting around dumping 2000 rounds a game so a guy can move and more action that people can watch. it also means clean up the cheating clean up the language clean up the basically everything that is tournament paintball.

I doubt changing the tourney scene would do a whole lot right now. You have to consider that most of the public has no idea that there are paintball tourneys. Changing something they have never heard about will do nothing. When paintball tournament play does replace the war image we have, that is when we might have to start cleaning up the tourney scene. Besides, we already have a headstart: X-Ball.

[rudy]

actually it will do something, if we get things changed at the tourney level it will do many times more help then just trying to stop people from buying paintball guns that arent shaped or colored the way you want. what it will do is increase the chance that more people will watch tournament play it will then increase the chance of it getting air time on television and maybe even radio. at that point then more people will see the sport in a different manner and many will moddel thier own play and thier fantasy on what they see.

And the whole point of my post is who is more likely to give a rip and or be able to change the way they play and live the sport? I would say you have a better chance at reaching tournament players who are more likely to read the publications and watch the web sites. and will probably care more about the future of the sport.

also xball is a start, maybe to be honest i didnt really see it as any different then the current tourney play except you do it a whole bunch of times in a row so you will be a little more aggressive since you arent banking everything on that one game. but as people get more expirence they will probably slow it back down. But i could be wrong either way its just a start and stuff like that has been tried before it never flew. of course maybe there is enough money backign it to force it to fly this time. either way i sure hope we have somethign better in store for us then just xball

, the only effect I could see it having is a negative one.

see the problem is a you have a hard time seeing things how they really are and giving credit where credit is due. If you cant see the millions of dollars not tournament players but rec players shooting tippmanns are dumping into the sport as positive i cant help you.

[joeyjoe367]

Well, I'll have to admit, Those things are pretty damn cool looking.

...would I use one, or promote the use of these things? Heck no. UNless the whole thing was pink. Then it wouldn't be cool anymore, and therefore defeat the purpose of having it designed like an m-16 or whatever it's supposed to be.

[cledford]

Originally posted by Ov3rmind
I agree with you, TRIAD, 100%. I see no point to these milsim paintball markers, the only effect I could see it having is a negative one. What do you possibly have to gain my owning one of these? You want to be a soldier, go join the army and serve this country. You want to play paintball? Use the equipment the way it was supposed to be used and get rid of your newbish "sniper" fantasies.

The possible negative effects have already been stated by other AO members to a great extent, so I don't see a need to elaborate on them.

People like you make my point above. You can tell the difference between a milsim marker and a regular paintball gun - MOST PEOPLE CANNOT, WHATEVER THE COLOR. They all look real to them - fancy color or not. Paintball started and will continue to exist because guys want to run around and shoot each other. Trying to make "bad" groups because their markers look "too real" and good groups who make their guns look shiny or colored will not work. You can tell the difference, but the average anti-gun, million-mom marching, rabid zelot won't (and doesn't want to) be able to tell the difference.

Your attitude is the one I was talking about in England. It is basically "screw them cause I don't enjoy what they're doing anyhow" and "They're bad, because they're war mongers - but I'm different because I just play a game..." Dividing "us" is the quickest way for "them" to do away with paintball.

-Calvin

[hitech]

Originally posted by cledford
...Dividing "us" is the quickest way for "them" to do away with paintball.

While I don't like the idea of making paintball markers look like firearms, THAT IS A VERY TRUE STATEMENT. It is something ALL of us NEED to remember. And don't think for one minute it can't happen. It already has before.

[zach rumchak]

i was scanning through and i seen you should be 18 to purchase paintball equipment "walmart sticks to this rule"

well i dont think they do,i have bought p8 from them i am 14yrs old and my cousin knows someone who went in bout a brass eagle gun accidentally shot a friend in the eye and the parents sued wal-mart for selling them the gun
and the bad thing is is i live around the chicagoland area it isnt like the middle of nowhere were it makes a little difference

bye the way the kid did loose sight in that eye so use your safteys ok!