X-VALVE SPEED TEST = AVERAGE 32.7 CPS! (pic and sound)

[Jack & Coke]

I'm sorry, I missed the part where I'm supposed to IMPRESS you...

This thread is NOT ABOUT BPS, it's about CPS. Did I not make that clear in the title?

If you don't care about CPS, then why did you join our little conversation?

Please leave and stop being a flame baiting troll.

[Evil Bob]

Unfortunately, quick change barrels aren't necessarily quick change, especially when they are hot. The M60, for example, is a pain to remove when it's hot, even firing at a moderate rate, it overheats easily. I've seen them get welded in place, I've seen them droop/slag, I've watched them cook off rounds uncontrolably, done the same with the MG42.

The cold harsh reality is that you take the opportunity to switch barrels when the enemy gives you time to do so, the enemy can and will dictate your order of battle to you when you are being attacked. Firing in 5-6 round bursts is ideal when qualifying at the range, but when people's lives are on the line, you do what you must to prevent friendly loss of life. I've been in situations where we had to lay down long strings of grazing fire or our people would die, you can't afford to take the time to switch barrels, you do what you can to maintain some sort of rate of fire to prevent the enemy from advancing. Dump water, mud, what have you on it to keep it going until you're directed otherwise.

I saw a pair of A10's that cooked their main gun's by firing the entire magazine empty in a single pass, they were making runs onto the Irqui column that was trying to escape through the pass that was choked up by destroyed vehicles. There are operational limits for everything, and there are situations in which you exceed those limits and do what needs to be done.

-Evil Bob

[FreshmanBob]

Originally posted by Jack & Coke
I'm sorry, I missed the part where I'm supposed to IMPRESS you...

This thread is NOT ABOUT BPS, it's about CPS. Did I not make that clear in the title?

If you don't care about CPS, then why did you join our little conversation?

Please leave and stop being a flame baiting troll.

This sounds sooooo familiar

Evil Bob, the fact is that because it can shoot air, if there was a loader able to feed it fast enough it could shoot paint.

Not only that, but this is the second time where you've come of as a jerk to the poster who doesn't care about impressing you! If anyone is trying to impress you, chances are they'll say something about it!

[Trunnion]

i do understand your points. quick change barrels is not a solution, but when the situation presents itself, changed the barrel is preferable to just waiting for the one you have on to cool on its own. the new M240B has a handle on the barrel, to make it easier to remove. as i recall, the M60 and MG42 required an asbestos mitt to properly remove the barrel. i'm not sure about later models of either, but i know they were both originally designed that way. the M60 is being replaced in US Army service by this weapon, and i think the M240 has already become standard in the Marine Corps. it's supposed to be a superior weapon. anyway, i think we've both strayed from what my original point was. the point was that the cyclic rate of these weapons is capable of far exceeding the cyclic rate of a paintball gun, at least in multibarrel configurations. and in such configurations, the ROF is sustainable(which is not possible in the single barrel weapons, except for short periods of time). much like you, i think i would like to see how long the X-Valve can cycle at such a rate. if it's sustainable for a reasonable period of time(several seconds at least), then i'll be thoroughly impressed. otherwise, it's interesting, but not the most impressive thing ever


*EDIT* bob may not have said it in the nicest way, but he does have a point. this test proves the bolt can cycle at an exceptionally high rate for a portion of a second. that in and of itself is not that impressive. if the rate is SUSTAINABLE over a longer period of time, that is far more interesting.

[Butterfingers]

Id be curious how you did that... From what you are describing it seems like it is one pull multiple shots. Unless you did somthing real funky with the sear assembly It would be hard to fathom how this is possible without damage.

Beleive it or not my feild allows me to play with my Retro-mag... http://paintball.butters.org.

Check that out... 33 cps is not completely impossible. My 30 cps mag vid shows a sustainable rate at which all peaks are equally spaced and have equal amplitudes.

[Evil Bob]

Trunnion: the M240 came into service after I got out, so I never got a chance to fire it. Yeah, the abestos gloves sucked, like wearing extremely thick oven mits that were useless for manipulating the locking lug.

Freshmanbob: Yep, I made my point there as well, to which you agreed with it at the bottom of the thread. The point I'm making is guys like Butters, Odessey, Tom, Black, and a ton of others impress the hell out of me with practical demonstrations, they raise the bar to beat on a regular basis. What we're not seeing here is a practical application of this short burst of speed, it's useless, servers no purpose, and it is potentially damaging to the marker components as was pointed out earlier in the thread.

Take that short, fraction of a second burst, and do something constructive with it, sustain it, control it, shoot paint with it, do something that hasn't been done or seen before half a million times.

-Evil Bob

[Butterfingers]

Not to say what J&K did isn't impressive. I have never seen a cycle speed that high out of a mechanical RT based valve. I know it is possible but I have never attempted it. All J&K needs to do now is sustain that ROF, with a little work I don't think he is too far away.

[thecavemankevin]

bob fight!!

evil bob, this is the first step towards practicle application of this amount of cycles, why don't you calm down and perhaps offer suggestions as to how to make the marker fire 33Bps instead of just cycle.

Be constructive....not destructive

[Jack & Coke]

Practical?

I never said it was practical!

Jeez, make your own damn thread if you want to talk about what is practical.

I was curious about the limitations of the X-Valve design.

Just how fast can the MAG cycle?

Pure and simple.

I offer no relevancy to paintball games or application thereof.

I just thought it would be a good idea to share something most of you have probably never heard... a mag cycling 32-35 times per second.

Does it mean I can shoot paint with it at a sustainned ROF? Of course not dummy!

This thread was about testing how fast the X-Valve could cycle.

Not how fast it can shoot paint.

You want to IMPRESS me?

Start your own damn thread and stop crapping on this one...

[Jack & Coke]

Sorry, no video... yet.

I just read my camcorder instructions.

It says i need to buy an i.LINK cable and a IEEE 1394 (Firewire) Card. before I can transfer the video to my computer.

*sigh* More $$$ to spend...

Maybe this weekend... sorry

[Evil Bob]

Jack, I must apologize, I was posting from work this afternoon and did not take the time to fully read through your entire posting, I somehow missed the second and third post you made where you explained your intentions. Now that I'm home and have had time to read through the whole thing, I see that I was definitely wrong here, for that I am sorry.

-Evil Bob

[Jack & Coke]

Originally posted by Evil Bob
Jack, I must apologize, I was posting from work this afternoon and did not take the time to fully read through your entire posting, I somehow missed the second and third post you made where you explained your intentions. Now that I'm home and have had time to read through the whole thing, I see that I was definitely wrong here, for that I am sorry.

-Evil Bob

ok.

apology accepted.

Hopefully we can move on to a more constructive conversation relating to the speed of the x-valve...

[Smoken]

I've set up my mag to do that before. It's really quite easy. It was pretty cool because one of my friends used it in a local tourny that way (no rules against it). To allow the loader to keep up, slowly turn down the input pressure until you're shooting 20 bps (yes, bps) or less. I've always felt it is kind of cheating, but whatever. The thing of it is, when my friend used it at the tourney, everyone shut up and stared in awe as this mag ripped ropes of paint down the field w/out breaking any balls. I've since de-tuned the valve somewhat to make it safer, but it sure is cool to shoot paint like that.
P.S. No one told me how to do it, I figured it out on my own.

If you can't figure out how to do it on your own, I don't trust you with this kind of ROF.

[askman]

well, we know that xmag can be setup to 24(probably capable of it, knowing Tom) and I know that Halo was tested using mag for its 22bps. Also rt valve has been tested to 27 and verified. I don't see 33 being that far off. can someone post the setup that tom used for the 27 bps rt test? I know that he probably fired as fast as the feed system would allow, and probably not at the limit of the valve.

The max theoretical bps without shootdown using 1200 psi (typical max pressure allowed by adjustable tank) input probably can be calculated, I am guessing that higher input pressure will be better for higher rate of fire.

I figured 68ci 3k,800psi output tank gets about 600shot, about 250in-lb per shot. 8250in-lb per sec assuming 33shot/sec.or 6.875 ci per sec at 1200psi. that is not a lot of air. So, the tank/reg has to supply only about 7cubic inch of air per sec at 1200 psi. Since there is dwell time, my guess is that peak flow rate has to be about 2-3 times this amount. Lets assume about 20ci/sec peak flow rate. Now, the RT valve works at 450 psi, we figure that reg has to process peak of about 50ci per sec. That is significant amount of airflow. I don't know what the RT valve is capable of, but it should be close. May be someone has specs...

[Jack & Coke]

Ok, I've done a little experimenting with this "mod" i have here...

As I expected, Level 10 only partially works.

The part of Level 10 that works is the venting of pressure if the bolt pinches a ball.

The part of Level 10 that does NOT work is the return of the bolt to the open position (reset). It just stays there pushing against the ball. It totally makes sense if you understand what's going on.

By lowering my input pressure to 600 psi, I was able to lower the cycle rate down to 21.5 CPS.

Although this is "slow" enough for a Halo B or Warp to keep up, the full effect of the Level 10 is still not there. Again, it will pinch a ball.. and then just stay there.

The moment I flip the on/off lever on my tank, the pressure reduces (through level 10 venting hole) to where the bolt resets via main spring pressure.

I turn the on/off lever on my tank back on, and I'm ready to rock and roll again.