X-VALVE SPEED TEST = AVERAGE 32.7 CPS! (pic and sound)

[Jack & Coke]

listen here...

(zipped wav file)

[Jack & Coke]

Some thoughts and observations after two days of tinkering...

Setting up a marker to fire this way:

- Produces THE FASTEST POSSIBLE bolt cycling rate for the MAG... I'll try an input pressure of 1100 psi tomorrow.

- INCREASE the Input pressure, INCREASE the CPS... to a point. I believe if you increase the input pressure too high, the bolt will not cycle completely, creating a situation for true "runaway". Not "runaway" as incorrectly used to refer to "sweet-spotting", but "runaway" in terms of NOT BEING ABLE TO STOP THE GUN even after you release the trigger. This is my prediction if I am correct in understanding how this mod works. Very dangerous.

- With a low input pressure of 600 psi, this setup may be able to be used if a HALO B and/or WARP is used to feed it at 22+ BPS. This "lower pressure" setup will turn the gun into a TRUE FULL-AUTO gun. That is, you pull and hold the trigger back, the gun fires 21.5 BPS. You release the trigger, the gun will stop firing.

- At my original test input pressure of 900 psi, the bolt cycles at 32 CPS, and makes COMPLETE bolt travel forward and back.

that's all for now...

---------------------------------


BTW, I stopped by my local PB store yesterday with my mag and my new "SPEED MOD" DEMONSTRATION X-Valve SETUP.

EVERYONE's jaws were wide open!

They had NEVER seen nor heard anything cycle as fast as my MAG.

I had to refill my tank 4 times from all of the demonstrations I showed them. The looks on their faces was worth it.

I had 2 new customer ask the shop owner if he carried any MAGS... sadly the owner said "no", not enough interest.

I said, well, maybe I should bring my mag around a little more often...

After switching out my "speed" setup, I installed my "normal" setup to continue to WOW them with my Level 10... LOL! The finger in the LEVEL 10 breech gets them EVERY TIME!

I swear, if only I had two x-valved mags to sell... I would have had them! Oh well, maybe next time...

[Evil Bob]

How many shims are you using in the lvl X? If you can get the bolt to vent earlier, it should reset. I'd go with 3 for starters.

-Evil Bob

[Surreal]

i'm pretty sure you can do this on Tippmann 98 customs too.. i know on the tippmanns you have to put like a little 'wedge' in the hole in the sear, so that when you hold the trigger, the sear just stays down and the bolt just goes into full auto due to the fact that the sear isnt catching it.

[Jack & Coke]

Originally posted by Evil Bob
How many shims are you using in the lvl X? If you can get the bolt to vent earlier, it should reset. I'd go with 3 for starters.

-Evil Bob

Normally a good tip...

However, this mod does not exactly work that way. In order for the shims to be effective, the pressure behind the bolt has to be turned off so it can bleed out the vent hole. This is not the case.

Surreal,

The only similarity between your Tippman example and what I have here is:

- the bolt moves back and forth in a full cycle
- the main spring compresses and expands
- the sear never touches the bolt.

After that, the principle and opperation are completely different.

[Surreal]

well duh they are two completely different guns

[Evil Bob]

I got ya, essentially the input pressure is too great for the size of the hole to bleed off for lvl 10 to vent and reset properly. I take it lvl 10 worked fine at the lower 600 psi input when you were at the store?

Sounds like you're using spacers to reduce the sear contact and possibly a longer on/off pin to allow proper recharge or in the case of lvl 10 not working at all, the on/off pin is quite short and the pressure is never really turned off to the valve which prevents lvl 10 from properly reseting.

-Evil Bob

[BTAutoMag]

nice ill have to take a listed when i get home

[Patron God of Pirates]

This is driving me crazy. Will someone just drop me a PM and tell me how to do this?

Edit: Doh! I just spent 5 mins. looking at automag animation and, coupled with a few key things said here, I think I figured it out.

[Jack & Coke]

It has NOTHING to do with the on/off pin, so PLEASE DO NOT mess with the pin... I don't want you guys messing up your guns.

There's no need to make your bolt cycle as fast as I have done here.

It should be for DEMONSTRATION ONLY.

It's TOO DAMN FAST to be controlled.

I hope I don't come off like "I know something you don't know... nah nah na nah nah..."

It's not my intention... I made a promise to NOT say "how" to do it.

What I describe here are the results of the setup.

[Dave]

First of all, excellent work with the documentation of your experiments. Along with someone else's reading of what was posted, I do believe I understand as well

I've made a lot of experiments w/ different on/off assemblies and o-rings, and I know that my experiments have nothing to do with your experiments, but yes...aren't they just totally fun to experiment with? Almost every single way I had it setup produced a different result.

Is there one question you could possibly answer, which in a way you already did, but just to be sure: When you pull the trigger and hold it, the marker keeps firing full auto for as long as you hold the trigger, right? Also, 'something' was modified, am I correct? (you don't have to say what it is )

Anyway, good job

-Dave

[Da1spaz247]

My gun has done that a few times as well. I don't know how fast though. I take off my ReTro valve to inspect the on/off pin oring. Then, when I put it back together, I push the pin all the way in. When I air up and pull the trigger, it shoots INSANELY FAST FULL AUTO for a few seconds. It only does it for a few seperate pulls on the trigger, and then goes back to normal. I have no clue why it does that, but it definately gets my oponents worried! I love it that you accomplished that CPS cuz I am always in a war with the cocker users on my team, and I can use this against them.

[Jack & Coke]

Originally posted by Dave
...one question you could possibly answer, which in a way you already did, but just to be sure: When you pull the trigger and hold it, the marker keeps firing full auto for as long as you hold the trigger, right?

yes

Originally posted by Dave
...Also, 'something' was modified, am I correct?

No

Originally posted by Dave
...Anyway, good job

Thank You!

[askman]

more I look at the mag system, it is like a open bolt submachine gun setup. SO I could see it being adjusted to do this full auto. No change in on/off is necessary in that situation.

[Dave]

Originally posted by Jack & Coke


No

Hmm, now I am confused I'm trying to think how else could you keep the sear from contacting the on/off pin...I guess it depends in which the contexts of 'modified' is...

I understand exactly what is happening to get this marker to fire like it does...I just don't know exactly how it is changed to get it there...think about the sources of limitation to the firepower of the automag....tank(recharging/input pressure), and *other* things, and simply remove the other things, but I cannot think of how you would remove the other things without modifying them...gonna think on this one a little more.

Obviously, something is modified, or changed, for the marker to be firing different than a normal mag. And if you thought I was talking about anything w/ the on/off when replying, I wasn't I was talking about something different. I didn't want you to think I was implying the on/off pin by the cryptic use of words

What leads me to believe something is still changed is referring to it as an interchangeable part...

"After switching out my "speed" setup, I installed my "normal" setup to continue to WOW them with my Level 10... LOL! The finger in the LEVEL 10 breech gets them EVERY TIME!"

In any case, this is very interesting.

-Dave