AGD: the good, the bad, and the confusing

[gam-e]

i used to be 100% AGD, in fact i was probably more than 100%. i have owned every type of marker AGD has manufactured, and i have come to a sad truth.

firstly, i would like to say that AGD makes realiable marker, they are consistent, and affordable. Until recent upgrades and the new Emags.

i just have a few questions to ask, and i really don't expect an answer from Tom or anyone else for that matter, im just venting.


1. all these years we have been told that the chopping problem was due to us pulling the trigger wrong. "your chopping with that classic because you haven't learned the trigger yet." So now with the release of the level 10 AGD has magically decided that "oh, it wasn't your trigger finger, the bolt was actually hitting the pain too hard causing it to break- give us money for a lx, and we'll fix that marker of yours that is chopping through no fault of your own."


2. We have always had to pay that extra $10 or $20 for the automag barrels. why?-"Because they come off quick!" Now all of a sudden it seems like all of AGD's flashy equipment uses cocker barrels. why now, why not then, why couldn't we have saved that money long ago?


3.Today I was very enthusiastic about trying a ULE, lx, xvalve, intellimag. i was thrown for a loop when i tried both the classic and x-valve and realized the reactivness is miniscule, and all it seems to do is lighten the gun and make the trigger pull lighter? what is wrong with the X-valve? that $325 seems like a complete waste of money to me. i didn't get one little 2 shot burst out of it, not one. i always get those or 3 shot bursts with my emag or RT classic.

like i said, i dont expect answers, and no it wasn't some lemon marker, it was tip top shape, and sadly enough the guy was totally enthralled with it.

guys, flame me for this if you want, but im forced to say this now. if you want a true marker, there is only one choice--autococker.

on a lighter note: Tom, i heard rumors here about the 2004 emags comming with the chord milling on them... i know colin (the guy to does the milling) and he's a great guy, and i think he deserves an opportunity such as what ive heard. he does quality work, and doesn't make too much money doing it. he's paintball to the core, and a great guy.



guys... i like AGD, im just really confused about recent changes they've made (they should have, and much more COULD HAVE been done long ago)

on with the flames....actuall well thought out rebutals would be appreaciated

Dion

[Load SM5]

The LX bolt helps the marker to be more forgiving when you do shortstroke and the bolt hits a half-fed ball. It is true that AGD markers before LX had a faster bolt speed than most and that made them harder on the really brittle or crappy paints. Lot's of people had no chooping problems with the old level 7 mags because they did'nt shortstroke and rarely had chopping problems.


A lot of people did'nt like the twist lock barrels as they were generally more expensive. People demanded threaded barrels and so AGD met that demand. Now you have a choice which barrel style you want. Plus a twist lock barrel would'nt have worked as well with the removable breech.

Not sure what your problem was with the kick. Mine is quite a bit more reactive. Maybe the input pressure was too low?

If you want a true marker then there is only one choice...whatever marker you like to play with. If you don't want a mag anymore and want to play with a cocker, then so be it. But that does'nt mean it's for everyone. Hell, as long as you're playing who cares what you shoot?

[oldsoldier]

As far as the chopping goes, the LX is more forgiving than without. Thus, if you shortstroke, the bolt will bounce off the ball, not continue through it.
The reactivity of the Xvalve is the same as an emag, or RTP valve. It is just made of aluminum, thats all. They didnt change the internal characteristics at all.
I think, and there was a thread somewhere...the reason Tom went with cocker threads was because it is getting harder to get barrel maunfacturers to make the twist lock, and, people here were screaming for cocker threads. PErsonally, I was against the idea at first; till I bought an X. Now, I enjoy the fact that any barrel makes makes cocker threaded barrels, and it doesnt cost anything extra.


EDIT: heh, load beat me to the punch.

[Brak]

i dont give a crap about what you said. but saying there is only one true marker, and at that, saying that its an autococker, is probably one of the sutpidest things ive ever heard in my life. take a look at intimidators, matrices, angels, bushmasters, and impulses (aside from mags) and tell me that they are inferior to an autococker. go on, i dare you.

[gam-e]

Re: AGD: the good, the bad, and the confusing

guys, flame me for this if you want, but im forced to say this now. if you want a true marker, there is only one choice--autococker.


i already did =)

[tony3]

tom said awhile ago that the older rt's are more reactive then the new valves, he has no idea why. Also reactivity varies, gun to gun

[Recon by Fire]

Everybody has their preferences, but Autocockers? Half the people buy them just because they think it is cool to watch the back block move. I could have bought the best, top of the line Autococker available, I think I made the right choice

[Frank (the spank)]

Re: AGD: the good, the bad, and the confusing

Originally posted by gam-e

1. all these years we have been told that the chopping problem was due to us pulling the trigger wrong. "your chopping with that classic because you haven't learned the trigger yet." So now with the release of the level 10 AGD has magically decided that "oh, it wasn't your trigger finger, the bolt was actually hitting the pain too hard causing it to break- give us money for a lx, and we'll fix that marker of yours that is chopping through no fault of your own."

And theres only 1 way to chop a ball?

Short stroke = Chop
Slow hopper + rapid fire = Chop
Rapid fire + balls bobbeling in the ball stack = Chop

Level X solved just about all those issues. WELL worth the money on my humble opnion.

Originally posted by gam-e
2. We have always had to pay that extra $10 or $20 for the automag barrels. why?-"Because they come off quick!" Now all of a sudden it seems like all of AGD's flashy equipment uses cocker barrels. why now, why not then, why couldn't we have saved that money long ago?

I think Tom thought it was a better route, having the breech all part of the barrel SEEMS like a good idea. Back then Automags dominated the tourney scene, so barrel companies had no problem making twist lock barrels, now.. mags aren't so popular, companies don't want to make twist locks anymore so.. Tom went with the standard.

Originally posted by gam-e
3.Today I was very enthusiastic about trying a ULE, lx, xvalve, intellimag. i was thrown for a loop when i tried both the classic and x-valve and realized the reactivness is miniscule, and all it seems to do is lighten the gun and make the trigger pull lighter? what is wrong with the X-valve? that $325 seems like a complete waste of money to me. i didn't get one little 2 shot burst out of it, not one. i always get those or 3 shot bursts with my emag or RT classic.

As well as no shootdown. That was a problem for me since I get on my trigger a lot, and it sucked when I would throw a rope of paint and they would fall short of the bunker I was shooting at so I had to slow down to make my shots reach.

Lighter gun, lighter trigger pull are all good things. the RT is very big, but you gotta turn up the output on your tank.

Originally posted by gam-e
there is only one choice--autococker.

buwahahaha.. I have always hated autoclunkers and always will. The thing is a friggen steam powered choo choo train.. you pull the trigger and every part of the gun goes "chugga chugga chugga!". Have fun timing your cocker and working on it between games. Every team member that shoots a clunker is always fiddling with it, which is part of paintball.. it's fun to teak with your gear, but sometimes it will piss you off.

I shoot a ULE E-Mag, and I am about to buy an Angel Speed for a 2nd gun. Why? the problem i have with mags is.. they're boring to me now. I mean.. I never have to tune it, tweak it, fix it.. I know the entire gun like the back of my hand since I've shot mags when they first came out and have owned about 3 original mags. I want something different. And When my Angel Speed starts to pisss me off with problems my other teammates have, I'll switch to the E-Mag.

Hey.. we all need change.. but it's not the mags or AGD's fault. (sounds like I'm breaking uo with a girl)

I have used mags for a long time and want to try something different. Instead of breaking up with my baby.. I'm gonna cheat on her and have two guns, lol

[Jerhew]

i don't think this was emphasized enough...
your output pressure must've been too low...
crank that thing up to 1000psi and you'll see a reactive trigger..no question about it

frankly saying the autococker is the only true marker...
you're pretty much just exploiting your own ignorance...

oh and by the way
when the level 10 cocker comes out... let me know

[BlackVCG]

Okay, please for the love of God explain to me how a gun that was converted from a pump and uses 60's technology is "The Only Choice".

You had credibility with me until you made that statement. I mean, I like Cockers and how they shoot and all, but they have to be one of the pathetically engineered guns on the market.

[Jerhew]

yeah um....
there's a much better design for a cocker....
it's called a palmer typhoon/blazer
and even that still is basically an automated pump gun

[AdrenalineMag]

when will some people learn. the perfect gun is.... dum dum dum (drum roll i think...) dah dah.....TAH DAH! the perfect gun is whats perfect for YOU. paintball markers are all personal preference. but since this is a mag forum you will find alot of people that say the mag is the perfect gun. gam-e more power to you with that cocker thing.

cold and silent... soiled face, i will wash it all away...... oops got sidetracker... g2g

[Mav D MagMan]

Re: AGD: the good, the bad, and the confusing

Originally posted by gam-e
i used to be 100% AGD, in fact i was probably more than 100%. i have owned every type of marker AGD has manufactured, and i have come to a sad truth.

firstly, i would like to say that AGD makes realiable marker, they are consistent, and affordable. Until recent upgrades and the new Emags.

i just have a few questions to ask, and i really don't expect an answer from Tom or anyone else for that matter, im just venting.


1. all these years we have been told that the chopping problem was due to us pulling the trigger wrong. "your chopping with that classic because you haven't learned the trigger yet." So now with the release of the level 10 AGD has magically decided that "oh, it wasn't your trigger finger, the bolt was actually hitting the pain too hard causing it to break- give us money for a lx, and we'll fix that marker of yours that is chopping through no fault of your own."


2. We have always had to pay that extra $10 or $20 for the automag barrels. why?-"Because they come off quick!" Now all of a sudden it seems like all of AGD's flashy equipment uses cocker barrels. why now, why not then, why couldn't we have saved that money long ago?


3.Today I was very enthusiastic about trying a ULE, lx, xvalve, intellimag. i was thrown for a loop when i tried both the classic and x-valve and realized the reactivness is miniscule, and all it seems to do is lighten the gun and make the trigger pull lighter? what is wrong with the X-valve? that $325 seems like a complete waste of money to me. i didn't get one little 2 shot burst out of it, not one. i always get those or 3 shot bursts with my emag or RT classic.

like i said, i dont expect answers, and no it wasn't some lemon marker, it was tip top shape, and sadly enough the guy was totally enthralled with it.

guys, flame me for this if you want, but im forced to say this now. if you want a true marker, there is only one choice--autococker.

on a lighter note: Tom, i heard rumors here about the 2004 emags comming with the chord milling on them... i know colin (the guy to does the milling) and he's a great guy, and i think he deserves an opportunity such as what ive heard. he does quality work, and doesn't make too much money doing it. he's paintball to the core, and a great guy.



guys... i like AGD, im just really confused about recent changes they've made (they should have, and much more COULD HAVE been done long ago)

on with the flames....actuall well thought out rebutals would be appreaciated

Dion

I agree with a lot of what the other folks said, so listen to them as well but:

1. Bolt hits too hard - Wasn't it actually the hyper bolt cycle speed that TK accredited to a lot of chops/blown balls? The next ball in the stack was being damaged by the bolt as it recocked, and by moving the bolt slower through the breech area they eliminated that problem?

2. Barrels - Customer choice, like everyone else said. But I do think the twistlock makes a neat sword sound when you pull it out really fast. Schwing

3. X-Valve - What do you mean by two round burst vs. three round? That you couldn't pull the trigger as fast when snap shooting?

Unless you are all running different trigger frames, I don't really understand how that could change all that much (from 3 balls to 1...)

One choice? Autococker dude? A few of these guys said some harsh things, and I do enjoy the joke that it's a pump marker, made semi, turning electro but it is a fine marker.

But it's not for everyone, hand one to a kid for his first day of play and it will be neat for him. He'll shortstroke but that can happen on a mag as well, not a real big deal, he just don't know how to pull the trigger...

But give it to him to keep, and how long's it going to take for him to get lost in the maze of overcomplicatedness? (Yes it's a word now).

It may be the marker for you, that's great. But it ain't for *everyone* That's like saying we should all drive Honda squishcars...

Mav

[gam-e]

Originally posted by BlackVCG


You had credibility with me until you made that statement.

ouch. trust that i didn't intent to compromise my character by expressing my opinions.

many apologies for saying something that urked you.

honestly man, thats pretty shallow to lose respect for someone for something so insignifigant




to those who calmly brought forth their opinions: you have my gratitude. i will admit that i was thinking rather closed-minded, but i will not apologize for the statements, because if they weren't made i wouldn't have been exposed to these other opinions.

so sarcasm can't be felt online, i know, i do like autocockers, i use a dark cocker now, never chopped, sips air, i really like it. i'm not commanding everyone here to buy one, so please all of you bi-polar maniacs. chill out.

thanks again for the HELPFULL insight (you know who you are)
Dion

[Jerhew]

well since ya put it that way...

really you couldve made your point and got some explanations without rehashing the bad blood between mags and cockers(even though its mostly light hearted at this point )