Bill Cookstone and the Trigger Bounce Issue

[fire1811]

Originally posted by JT2002
anyone here play nppl and notice if there are problems wiht this there?

thats what i play
have played every event and like i said havent seen or had
a problem yet

[Doc Nickel]

Bill Cookston is one of the movers and shakers in the NPPL. He's been part of the system for years, and was eyeball-deep in the SP "Turbo" board controversy back in '98. (In other words, SP was trying to convince Bill it was legal by a vague explanation that movement of the actual contacts in the trigger switch constituted a "trigger pull", not the player's finger. Bill wisely thought otherwise. )

In fact, Bill E-mailed me himself back in late '98 or early '99, and told me my Rocking trigger wouldn't be legal for the NPPL under the "one shot per pull" definition.

Doc.

[WarBUCKs]

Score another point for AGD.

[rehme]

sweetness

[AGD]

UPDATE

There is going to be an industry meeting on friday morning to discuss the trigger bounce issue. All the major gun manufacturers are going to be there to discuss this. Most are for getting rid of trigger bounce and cheater software that makes guns shoot full auto after 30+ shots.

There was a story of a gun being thrown down at the chicago event and causing it to go full auto by itself on the ground from trigger bounce.

And you think we have problems...

AGD

[raehl]

Bill Cookston is the Ultimate Ref for PSP, and some other events, but not NPPL.

Note that Bill's allowance for an extra shot not being a big deal doesn't necessarily make you ok elsewhere - that's definitely a violation of the Millenium trigger bounce rule for example. If that rule has been adopted by S7 (not sure), you wouldn't be legal there either.

- Chris

[TheBigRaguPB4L]

Someone go post this to the kids at pbnation.

[raehl]

Hey Tom...

I won't be at said meeting (like I was invited anyway ) but I would like to make the recommendation that the Millenium bounce rule be used - it's simple, clearcut, and should eliminate trigger bounce in the vast majority of cases. We'll probably adopt it for the college league, although we'll certainly also look at whatever comes out of this conference.


I'll see if I can dredge up a copy of the rule before I take off for Pittsburgh.


- Chris

[raehl]

Here we go...

It's nitpicky, but the "instance" stuff at the end of the first paragrah is deleted, as it's not entirely clear what "instance" is revering to. The tests are called tests everywhere else in the rule, might as well be consistent.

"First, the judge will fully depress and hold the trigger. While keeping the trigger fully depressed, the judge will attempt to move the trigger side to side. The judge will then release the trigger. No more than one paintball may have been fired. Second, the judge will as quickly as possible fully depress and then release the trigger. No more than one paintball may have been fired. Third, the judge will apply sideway pressure to the trigger and then attempt to fully depress the trigger. No more than one paintball may have been fired. Fourth, the judge will slowly, over a period not to exceed two seconds, fully depress the trigger in one continuous motion and then, over a period not to exceed two seconds, slowly release the trigger in one continuous motion. No more than one paintball may have been fired.

"If any of the four tests are failed, a player may request that the complete set of four tests is repeated an additional two times. The marker will be deemed legal if it passes every subsequent test and be otherwise deemed illegal.

"Any marker which can be made to fire without applying a force external to the marker directly to the trigger is illegal.

"These tests will be performed with the marker held in a manner and position consistent with playing on the field

"An illegal marker will not be permitted on the field of play, a player may be asked by any judge prior to the 30sec warning for his gun to be tested. If a marker on the field of play is determined to be illegal after testing (which can happen at any point after a player is eliminated or the game ends - but before the score sheet is signed), then (insert whatever penalty you deem appropriate)."


With the caveat that after looking into it further I'm not sure it has actually been put into the Millenium rules yet.


- Chris

[cledford]

Trigger event queuing...

Tom,

As I'm sure WAS will be at the meeting I think someone should challenge him on his practice of queuing trigger events. I can find the relevant posts (made by him) on PBN if required.

Personally, I also believe that someone needs to take him to task for his adjustable "debounce" setting - which he claims is provided to "dial out" trigger bounce as opposed to what must people use it for - dialing IN bounce. (Which also then allows full-auto fire when set to 1ms) In my mind it's very funny that NO other manufacturer has any sort of user accessible "debounce/bounce" adjustment and can still get guns that fire incredibly fast, but Jim allows this feature to persist in his product which casts a pall over all electros.

-Calvin

[GT]

Re: Trigger event queuing...

Originally posted by cledford
In my mind it's very funny that NO other manufacturer has any sort of user accessible "debounce/bounce" -Calvin

If you hit the Matrix forums I beleive that the new NYX matrix has these settings.

jb

[cledford]

Cool, so now it's catching on :/

Thanks for the update, I wasn't aware of the new Matrix.

-Calvin

[luke]

It sounds to me like the real problem is not the rules but, the interpretation of the rules. Most smaller tournaments will adopt the rules of the larger ones. I think this is where we will run into problems....

[shartley]

Originally posted by luke
It sounds to me like the real problem is not the rules but, the interpretation of the rules. Most smaller tournaments will adopt the rules of the larger ones. I think this is where we will run into problems....

[luke]

um, dad can I have $20. (big smile) I looove you daddy.