Bill Cookstone and the Trigger Bounce Issue

[JEDI]

Originally posted by cphilip


Now...IF it was designed TO do it and you cannot get it to NOT do it then its functioning properly but your screwed... now that would not be good.

Ok, I wont split hairs here. I'll agree it can be viewed as a malfunction. It just doesnt lend itself to being a malfunction, when so many people can do it with ease, and even boast about it. (that sounds like a design flaw) You're right, it would be worse if it was designed to do so, and was not avoidable. But whats the difference, if in order to keep an Emag from running away, you have to make the trigger pull really long? That was basically the only fix we were able to come up with.

We brought the gun to the AGD booth, and it was established that moving the HES magnet far enough to prevent bounce, also kept the gun from shooting. So now you have an electro that has the disadvantage of not being able to bring the trigger pull in, without causing bounce. The trigger wasn't a hair pull to begin with when it bounced. Now its between 3/16" - almost 1/4" pull. Thats fairly long for an electro.

I'm glad to see Tom is a big advocate against bounce, its unsafe. But Tom, and us Mag shooters pretty much dug our own graves. How else would you explain a bias towards a gun that only came out of obscurity a year or so ago?

[cphilip]

Agreed... There must be work done to dig out.

That HES itself sounds overly sensitive to me. I never had one do that myself but I have heard of a few others that did. Did anyone try shiming the HES or better put shielding it with a thin piece of paper or so?

[RoadDawg]

I've been on this board for awhile now and was thinking of finally going E. However these issues are really concerning me. I'm looking to play tournies but yet have no experience with a Emag. Is it easy to make the gun go faster then the rules allow? Basically I'm just asking for some down to earth info that clears up to the point. Thanx.

[JEDI]

Well, I wouldn't sway you from getting an Emag. They're good guns. Just know, that there can be an issue with the bounce problem. My teammate had no clue his gun could do this, until one of the refs chrono'd his gun, and he got it to bounce. This isnt hear-say, I saw it happen right in front of me. There appears to be ways to correct the problem, but to me they all seem to hinder the performance of the gun as an electro. Who wants an Emag with a long trigger, and some paper gerry rigged onto the sensor...

[SyntaxError]

What I think is interesting about this whole issue is how some people can get guns to bounce, while others can't. Like Jedi said, the one guy didn't even know his gun could bounce like that, while the ref can shoot it full auto. Its a highly subjective rule considering it can't possibly apply to everyone. I know people that can practically bounce any electro real fast, while I know others who can barely get a timmy to spit out paint, so the same setup will have different results in different people's hands.

I don't think bounce is too much of an issue, either. With timmys and the NYX trix, at least, there are debounce settings which limit the amount of bounce on the trigger. I understand that they're not 100% effective, but once you get 100% effective, your marker's trigger feel goes to crap. Triggers will ALWAYS have some sort of bounce as long as there are electro triggers, due to the slight recoil that most markers exhibit.

I really haven't seen too much of a problem with bounce, and I think people blow the issue WAY out of proportion. I think that when its decided that a bit of bounce, while still keeping trigger feel, and not going F/A, is fine to use, then the issue will be for the most part resolved.

[raehl]

Actually, there is a 100% solution...

Have two firing points - fire at the "back" firing point, and then don't fire again until the trigger returns to the "front" firing point, and mandate a minimum distance between the two points.

Problem with that solution is it would require redesigning pretty much every trigger system out there.


- Chris

[JEDI]

Originally posted by SyntaxError


I don't think bounce is too much of an issue, either. With timmys and the NYX trix, at least, there are debounce settings which limit the amount of bounce on the trigger. I understand that they're not 100% effective, but once you get 100% effective, your marker's trigger feel goes to crap. Triggers will ALWAYS have some sort of bounce as long as there are electro triggers, due to the slight recoil that most markers exhibit.

Right, I think we've come this far to get good electros, with short triggers. I think in order to reslove the problem 100%, is to move backwards, and hinder the advantage of a short electronic trigger. Honestly, I dont think bounce is a huge problem. Most respectable, and nonrespectable players dont go crazy with a "full auto" gun any way.

[striker]

What about sweet-spotting an RT? Technically, it's one-shot-per-one-pull. So what's the deal with sweet-spotting?