Bill Cookstone and the Trigger Bounce Issue

[Athius]

Maybe they will ban pmi piranhas cuz with mine i just push that security thing that locks the bolt and hammer when field stripping and it turned full auto evnethough i didnt do this much cuz it would ripp my sear.

[AGD]

The meeting didn't happen because not enough people showed up.

AGD




chuff, chuff

[nippinout]

Originally posted by AGD
The meeting didn't happen because not enough people showed up.

AGD




chuff, chuff

That's a real let down.

It's the one week where EVERY big company is represented, and not enough of the paintball gun manufacturers could get together for a meeting of pretty big importance?

I feel kind of let down.

But then again, the companies came together a few years ago and agreed to a 13bps ROF cap. Lots of good that did.

Whatever.

[fire1811]

Originally posted by nippinout
It's the one week where EVERY big company is represented, and not enough of the paintball gun manufacturers could get together for a meeting of pretty big importance?

maybe they have some bounce issues they would like
to keep

[AzrealDarkmoonZ]

All the big names

Some noticeable lackings, or else they were hidden.

Indian Creek Designs, I realize they are not the largest player and have perhaps a small share but they are a pball household name.

The big surprise is I did not see Bob Long and any Timmies related setups. Which was odd given the amount of timmies, although there seemed to be mroe Matrices than anything.

The odd part was watching the different dominant marker in the different classes, it seems in the smaller divisions, 3/5 man Matrices were dominant and Angels were lacking but as you moved up it switched. Odd...

Az

[raehl]

Well..

Industry stuff was mainly Wednesday, and lots of people were gone by Friday morning.

As for the NCPA, you are free to remove your trigger rod according to the current rules.


- Chris

[cphilip]

Thanks Chris for that NCPA clarification.

As to the meeting...Its a shame it didn't come off. I suspect most of them would just rather not let people know its gonna be an issue. Or admit they have a problem.

[raehl]

I don't think anyone would have a problem admitting that everyone's equipment is so different that it's a right pain to write effective rules that don't unfairly target one design or another.

- Chris

[cphilip]

Amen brother. I sure wouldn't want to try. I think they are fair like they are. And the only problems seems to be an even handed and manufacturer blind application of them in a few spots.

[JEDI]

We had a 5 minute game delay at the IAO due to my teammates Emag. One of the refs was able to full auto his Emag in E-mode. Generally I thought this was a problem with hybrid mode. My teammate did not set his gun up to do this, nor was he able to replicate the bounce himself. It frustrated me that the gun was able to do this, without my buddy even knowing about it. Luckily the refs were understanding enough to give him time to go get his cocker.

This is a problem with a lot of guns. I dont think AGD should take the position though, that its a myth that Mags do it a lot. Obviously they do. The part that agrivates me is that my teammate didn't even know his gun was capable of this. We could have been seriously penalized for something that was completely unintensional.

[cphilip]

Oh they can do it. But its malfunctioning when it does it. But no one has ever said they couldn't. I am certain thats not AGD position on it. And its certainly not mine either.

[JEDI]

I dont know that I would consider it to be malfunctioning. There is nothing mechanically wrong with the gun. It was able to full auto due to the design of the gun. The ref, and several people afterward were able to repeat it. I dont think Tom designed the guns with the intension of bounce in mind, but its a result of the design. Thats not a malfunction. I can do this- AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA - with my keyboard. Thats not malfunctioning, its a result of the design.

I think Mags take the blunt of the bounce issue, because most mag owners know the ease at which it can be done. I play ball with a lot of mag shooters and "mag only" teams, and I know I often over hear how easily they're guns "run away" in hybrid mode. I think Mag owners need to be careful with this issue, because for some of them it's more "intensional" than we here at AO let on.

I'm not picking on Mags. The same teammate with the Emag, was shot twice in the chrono box, by a guy whos Timmy shot on the pull AND the release. I just dont like to see the kettle calling the pot black.

[MarkM]

Originally posted by JEDI
I dont know that I would consider it to be malfunctioning. There is nothing mechanically wrong with the gun. It was able to full auto due to the design of the gun. The ref, and several people afterward were able to repeat it. I dont think Tom designed the guns with the intension of bounce in mind, but its a result of the design. Thats not a malfunction. I can do this- AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA - with my keyboard. Thats not malfunctioning, its a result of the design.

I think Mags take the blunt of the bounce issue, because most mag owners know the ease at which it can be done. I play ball with a lot of mag shooters and "mag only" teams, and I know I often over hear how easily they're guns "run away" in hybrid mode. I think Mag owners need to be careful with this issue, because for some of them it's more "intensional" than we here at AO let on.

I'm not picking on Mags. The same teammate with the Emag, was shot twice in the chrono box, by a guy whos Timmy shot on the pull AND the release. I just dont like to see the kettle calling the pot black.

Very well put Jedi, good to see someone has a got a rational outlook on the subject, the second paragraph really hits the nail on the head.

[emsemt911]

I have been around a lot of different electro guns. They all can be set to have trigger bounce. The triggers can be set sooooo short and sooooo lite that the recoil of the gun will allow the gun to "shoot automatic." I think that mags get the bad wrap because people did not understand the RT trigger, and consider this trigger bounce. I also believe that mags get picked on at tournaments more than any other gun. I will admit that I could set my angel, imp, and a friend's matrix all to have trigger bounce. I would never set my guns to due this at an event. If it was cought that would not be fair to my team mates. I respect them too much to do this. I have only had my e-mag for one tourny and have been checked twice. I have seen quite a few guns set so short that tapping it on the side would fire the gun. I have seen a player that was bragging to a ref at the Mardi Gras Open about his short light trigger that would fire with a tap on the side of the gun, and it was allowed in the event.

When will this Bull crap stop. it is up to the players to set their guns fairly and have fun when they play.

[cphilip]

A 2 cycle engine is designed to run at a certain speed and RPM. I can make it run at twice that... for a few hours.

So if you agree that it was not designed to do it...but you can still make it do it...its malfunction of the "Design". Not to split hairs but thats what you were doing. If it can be made not to do cause you want it not to do it then its functioning correctly then. Thats what I mean by malfunction. But you knew that didn't you?

In your friends case I suspect it was signal noise that Tom has reported when set to HROF setting. And that certainly would be a malfunction no matter what.

Now...IF it was designed TO do it and you cannot get it to NOT do it then its functioning properly but your screwed... now that would not be good.

And yea... we drew that attention on ourselves by making them do it and showing off the fact that they could do it. Now we are paying the price for that reputation... Earlier I said we had an obligation to stop that. And we all should try and break that myth that they do it and cannot be made to not do it. I am certain that they can. We have always said runnaway and bounce were undesirable. We never said they didn't or couldn't do it.