2001 Dark Angel VS Any Emag..SFL, Micro, AGD ..ect

[MJS1214]

i vote sonic bm2k

[Shaft]

Tom demonstrated some interesting results on his Gun-dyno during the tech class. He was demonstrating the recharge rate for the air chamber on the EMag valve. Very fast.
Then he connected a Dark Angel. It took over 10 seconds to fully charge.
Apparently the way the valve works, it can compensate for the low pressure while firing a fast string.
But 10 seconds?!?!?

I say there is only one choice. EMag.
Well two. EMag SFL

[gam-e]

well sorry guys but

i have an emag and inthe beginning i was super surprised with how awesome it was. it really was a site to behold.

BUT lately i have become dissapointed with it, it could be that it is one of the first ones made and that it may have problems, but i just dont know
Serial Number #293
the buttons are starting to stick in the back, and i dont know ive become disheartened with it.

i know use my cocker as my primary marker and have not had ANY problems and am trading my rt for a classic mag and warp. classics are just so cool.

but i loved my friends dark, someone ripped it off from him though.
it was awesome fromday one to the day it got stolen
accuracy, consistensy, everything

Dion

[Cha0tic]

well, i like the angel because it is lighter. WDP tries to shave off every ounce they can, and i like that. with the modular e-mags though, they will become much lighter. that will take care of that problem.

i like the feel of the emag's trigger a little better. i think it is like that of an eclipse angel, or at least the on i shot....

i have heard that the angel can fail in rain, but i'm ot sure on that. if your emag fails due to electronics, switch to manual.

one main thing is the customer service. nothing compares to AGD. the closest company as far as customer service is tippmann.

[mac2k4]

your right AGD does have good service, but i gotta say warped has better in my experience, but i've used my gun in bad rains, a whole turney of raining, and nuin happened, except the out side got wet. Along with the other 100 or more angels there, except some guy w/ a bushmaster dove insome snake and mud got inside the board area and screwed somin up

[Maghappy]

IM WITH SHAFT! i saw Tom do the same thing at the AGD SUPER TOUR. he showed us that the recharge on an Angel SUX! 10 seconds.... hmmmm..... and you pay alot more $ than an emag..... an emag shoots faster...... and emag is more accurate....... it recharges faster..... and its less expensive.... tech support is great..... warantee..... now tell me one GOOD reason to buy an angel. "cuz they are lighter" its a girls gun! chicks need light guns! go with an emag or be frowned upon!

[MagMan5446]

No gun is more accurate than another gun. I'm too lazy to explain right now, but I'll tell you if anyone argues.

Also Maghappy is right about the weight of guns.

[krafty]

I'm with Maghappy... after seeing the Superman Dark Angel Tom had on the gun dyno - I don't think I could ever come to grips with paying $1800 for one. When you see how poorly the Angel regs work, you can't help but wonder what all the fuss is about.

I'm starting to save up for an ACE-equipped SFL-Emag right this very nanosecond!

[manike]

Originally posted by MagMan5446
No gun is more accurate than another gun. I'm too lazy to explain right now, but I'll tell you if anyone argues.

Go ahead tell me why I like a good arguement... err debate

Accuracy is dependent on many factors and some guns ARE more accurate than others.

manike

[mac2k4]

why do ya mean it takes 10 secs? i took my dark(w/ a.i.r) shot a string, then immediatley chronoed again and was only down buy 4pts? i shot about 50 at around 10bps.
and where would ya have to pay 1800 for any angel? maybe they on purposley used a angel w/ some sort of problem to give ya a reason to be happy?

but about accuracy all guns shot from a controlled environment where the only variable is the gun itself (meaning, same velocity, paint, etc.) will shoot the same distance.
Accuracy is only effected by the consistancy of the gun, pain quality, and stability of the gun.

but who cares, just play your game, screw what gun ya have, spyder elecd, e-mag dark angel what ever....

[Chris]

About the recharge thing...it is a double edged sword, you can not just say the angel recharge rate sucks unless you explain why it is able to keep a consistant velocity.

Here goes:

The regulator on the angel, which is the WDP mini-reg I believe, has a rather poor recharge rate, particularly when compared to the retro valve. The angel is able to compensate for this poor recharge by the use of a pin valve. The hammer in the angel is thrown forward toward the pin valve, which will release air to the bolt and fire a ball. The less pressure behind the pin valve, the farther the valve will open. The more the valve opens, the more air is released. Keep in mind, that a high pressure low volume of air will have the same energy as a low pressure high volume of air. (well, there are variables to this...but you get the idea...1 cubic inch of air at 3k psi = 3 CI @1k psi...something along those lines, I dont remember the exact relationship, so either show me it or dont complain about it) This is the reason the angel is able to keep consistant even with a fairly slow recharging regulator.

One other thing that I failed to ask Tom, and maybe he can answer it, what was the output pressure of the flatline. I know that there should be at least a 200 psi variance between regulators. If there wasnt, maybe that was the reason the angel took longer than ten seconds to fully recharge.

The retrovalve recharge looked like a nearly vertical line, while the angel regulator recharge looked like a parabolic curve, steep at first, then slowly tapering off to the set pressure.

-Chris

[Cliffio]

im with mac2k4

i mean if you like the angel, get it, if u like the emag get it!

it doesnt matter one BIT to me if you claim you gun is more accuate, if i wanted that type of gun i would of bought it

i mean i think that a gun is totally personal prefference!

if u dont like angels dont buy one...
just what i think

Cliff

[polorboy]

I picked emag because I have shot angels before and I do not like the mouse click type of feel. I did not feel like I was shooting a paintball gun. I felt more like I was playing a game on my computer using my mouse or joystick. I have not shot an emag (yet) but from what I hear they are in a league of their own.

[nerobro]

It's not the angel that sucks. it's the Govinair/WDP minireg that does. The LPR on the angel sucks as well... it behaves just like the minireg does, though it is slightly faster. Saturday night we tested the palmers stab on the gun... Well that fixed the recharge curve, but not the LPR preformance :-/ the angel may well be a great gun. The regs that come on it leave a lot to be desired.

on another note, there has recently been released, an adapter that allows the use of a rock instead of the built in LPR on an angel.. *grins*

As for input pressures. Also saturday night. We went ahead and tested two other angels. they all preformed simmilarly, even given their wildy different output pressures. one was outputting 375, the other was at 550 the other was in the 700psi range. they all were the same.. so the input pressure wasn't the determining factor there. The stab that was tested was at at 550psi output.

Also note. Angels drop off badly at high rates of fire.. so that does agree with what the test shows. (explains the "accuracy problems" And the greater arc people see with angels)

Originally posted by Chris
About the recharge thing...it is a double edged sword, you can not just say the angel recharge rate sucks unless you explain why it is able to keep a consistant velocity.

Here goes:

The regulator on the angel, which is the WDP mini-reg I believe, has a rather poor recharge rate, particularly when compared to the retro valve. The angel is able to compensate for this poor recharge by the use of a pin valve. The hammer in the angel is thrown forward toward the pin valve, which will release air to the bolt and fire a ball. The less pressure behind the pin valve, the farther the valve will open. The more the valve opens, the more air is released. Keep in mind, that a high pressure low volume of air will have the same energy as a low pressure high volume of air. (well, there are variables to this...but you get the idea...1 cubic inch of air at 3k psi = 3 CI @1k psi...something along those lines, I dont remember the exact relationship, so either show me it or dont complain about it) This is the reason the angel is able to keep consistant even with a fairly slow recharging regulator.

One other thing that I failed to ask Tom, and maybe he can answer it, what was the output pressure of the flatline. I know that there should be at least a 200 psi variance between regulators. If there wasnt, maybe that was the reason the angel took longer than ten seconds to fully recharge.

The retrovalve recharge looked like a nearly vertical line, while the angel regulator recharge looked like a parabolic curve, steep at first, then slowly tapering off to the set pressure.

-Chris

[manike]

Originally posted by mac2k4
Accuracy is affected by the consistancy of the gun

Exactly and that's why some guns are more accurate than others. Some gun designs are better at maintaining accuracy whereas others are not...

manike