It's funny Dye got ripped off at IAO

[shartley]

Originally posted by Animal Mother
I saw it first hand and have studied the subject, this is.. how 99% of the factories in China are. Why else would Dye outsource to them?

Originally posted by Animal Mother
Exactly, to make a higher profit. If that was not the case then why does Dye pay the overseas shipping cost? Why not have a factory here in the U.S? Because it's cheaper in China.. and why is it Cheaper? Do your research for that answer.

Originally posted by Animal Mother
Oh come on.. you don't really believe what you are saying do you? Speaking of coal miners.. ever watch insomniac on Comedy Central? he did a tour of one.. they weren't working 12 hours a day 7 days a week for 25 cents. Sure it's a sucky job, but there are laws that protect their human rights. Little to no pay? Ever hear of MINIMUM wage? If they are working and not getting the minimum wage then they are illegally working here in the united states.

Originally posted by Animal Mother
And if you have read any of my posts you would have the answer. I openly admit that I buy Chinese and am aware of how it was made. I alone cannot change things, many people can. The more people that can take that first step and think of how the product they are purchasing was made and the people that made it, then as a whole we can start to change things. Nike is a great example of this. People blindly throw their money at something and don't think of how it got there. I never said I wanted to boycott Dye or any company that out sources to China, I have said this many times. What I am saying is to be aware of the working conditions of the people that made your gear. People thought it was sooo sad that Dye got ripped off.. no.. it was not, because I know what kind of company Dye is. If Dye was a better company.. then I would have felt sorry, I would buy ALL my products made by Dye, but when the very product they had children made gets stolen from them.. I cannot feel sorry for them. That was my point all along. I never asked anyone to protest Dye, you'll never find me with a bunch of unbathed hippies protesting anything. But when I am faced by two products from different companies.. I wanna know where that product came from so it can be part of my decision to buy it.

[Webmaster]

First off - one of the reasons overseas labor is so much cheaper is thier cost of living is sooo much lower than it is here.

Second - Chinas Communist Government has 10x more to do with the conditions the workers work in than anything else.

You give China Democracy and a healthy dose of free trade and capitalism and see where it takes them!

[UThomas]

People blindly throw their money at something and don't think of how it got there.

So if your big compelling point is that it is made by sweat shop works and that is bad, how does being aware of that and then not doing anything make it better?

Isn't that actually worse? Because people that didn't know can claim they didn't know. You on the other hand seem to be fully aware yet you STILL buy the products.

Hypocrit or enabler? Which is it? Or maybe you don't care about sweat shop workers as much as you claim.



Its obvious shartley had two spoon fulls of "correct" this morning for breakfast.

[Albinonewt]

Here's the thing about international labor. Companies HAVE to do it now. Once one company figured out they could reduce costs by moving to Taipan or other areas it was all over. Now cheap labor has become an essential component of competitive pricing. There is nothing evil or immoral with outsourcing.

Now, that being said, it's not good for the country and for working people when companies ship jobs overseas. It is the responsibility of the government and of the community to give the companies incentive to stay. In your China example there just aren't the kind of envirnmental restrictions there are in the US. There also aren't organized labor unions. Now, protecting the envirnment and pampering the worker are both important, to one degree or another, but it makes it more expensive for the companies to stay here.

Simply put, by being "civilized" we hurt our ability to compete. And Dye, for whatever reason, noticed this and decided to import. It's too bad for us as a nation, but there's nothing wrong with it.

[Animal Mother]

Originally posted by shartley

Why else would Dye outsource to them? You are HONESTLY thinking they do it to help support oppression (as you claim), and all the other things you are so worried about?

They support oppression by funding the very 3rd party companies in China. If Dye did not give them any business then they wouldn't have a job, right?

They don't have to have no job at all. They can have BETTER working conditions. Microsoft picked up a factory in China to make Xbox's because their Mexico plant was not keeping up with demand. People were outraged because they would have children make toys for children in other countries. So.. part of the agreement Microsoft made was the workers could work no more than 50 hours a week and over 40 hours they would be paid overtime. You see the little difference that made? Does the job still suck? Sure.. but informed consumers voiced their opinion and Microsoft at least attempted to change their way. Not because it was the right thing to do.. but because it helped their business. You can still have a successful business without enslaving people. Dye is unknown when compared to a company like Microsoft, so they don't have to make such an agreement to satisfy the outraged people, they can go ahead and have their product made as cheaply as possible and the rich parents will still buy it for their kids that beg.

It reminds me of the episode of South Park, no one knew what Veil was, they just ate it because it tasted good. Once the kids found out it was calfs they changed the name of Veil to "Tourtured Little baby Cows" and no one bought Veil anymore, lol. If they changed "Made in China" to "Made by Slave Children in hot humid conditions for 12 hours a day"... do you think Dye would sell as many "Pit shirts" as they do?

The show 20/20 did a report on sweatshops overseas and the heads of theses companies were PISSED when they interviewed their employees and snuck hidden cameras into factories.

Why was that? Because it showed the truth and with the truth soccer moms watching 20/20 would start to protest and theses bosses would not be rich anymore.

Originally posted by shartley

And what is the cost of LIVING in these countries? Did you know that you can pay a 3rd World employee virtually nothing and still have them make MORE in comparison to their standard of living and cost of living? That alone would save companies money in production costs.

That's great, but how much of a life can a person have by working 12 hours a day 7 days a week? The only reason they are not working 24/7 is because the human body wouldn't last long under those conditions. That must suck for the slave masters..

Originally posted by shartley

I applaud you for wanting to know where your products come from before you buy them. But I have a feeling that if anyone was to walk into your house and examine where everything was made (to include parts of things), your wanting to know would not matter much.

I invite you, because half of the things I purchased the deciding factor was because it was not made in China. Another one was that all my Sony crap breaks 1 year later.. so most of my electronics were made in Japan by Panasonic. 1% is better than 0%.. 1% is a start in trying to change things in China, to give theses companies a reason to change their work ethics and make policies like Microsoft did for the Xbox.

Originally posted by shartley

Exactly... theses people cannot get an education and choose another line of work. You can join the military and have them pay for half your college education, finical aid, student loans, when you get laid off you have unemployment. Theses people have NONE of this. You do and sit back and think everyone has the same luxury.

Originally posted by shartley

And do Chinese workers have that choice? Are they held at gun point and marched into the factories?

hahahaha... with our dealings with the Chinese government you REALLY think that is so far fetched?

Originally posted by shartley

Again.. not reducing, putting pressure on companies to have part of their agreement that their workers have fair working conditions. Dye is too small to do such a thing, but they will grow.. and soon we will need to address theses issue and voice our concerns about their work ethics. Part of being informed... it has to start somewhere, being informed is the first step but I don't see anyone else making that first step.

[shartley]

Originally posted by Animal Mother
They support oppression by funding the very 3rd party companies in China. If Dye did not give them any business then they wouldn't have a job, right?

They don't have to have no job at all. They can have BETTER working conditions. Microsoft picked up a factory in China to make Xbox's because their Mexico plant was not keeping up with demand. People were outraged because they would have children make toys for children in other countries. So.. part of the agreement Microsoft made was the workers could work no more than 50 hours a week and over 40 hours they would be paid overtime. You see the little difference that made? Does the job still suck? Sure.. but informed consumers voiced their opinion and Microsoft at least attempted to change their way. Not because it was the right thing to do.. but because it helped their business. You can still have a successful business without enslaving people. Dye is unknown when compared to a company like Microsoft, so they don't have to make such an agreement to satisfy the outraged people, they can go ahead and have their product made as cheaply as possible and the rich parents will still buy it for their kids that beg.

It reminds me of the episode of South Park, no one knew what Veil was, they just ate it because it tasted good. Once the kids found out it was calfs they changed the name of Veil to "Tourtured Little baby Cows" and no one bought Veil anymore, lol. If they changed "Made in China" to "Made by Slave Children in hot humid conditions for 12 hours a day"... do you think Dye would sell as many "Pit shirts" as they do?

Originally posted by Animal Mother
The show 20/20 did a report on sweatshops overseas and the heads of theses companies were PISSED when they interviewed their employees and snuck hidden cameras into factories.

Why was that? Because it showed the truth and with the truth soccer moms watching 20/20 would start to protest and theses bosses would not be rich anymore.

How about this simple fact? ANY business would be pissed if it was being filmed without its knowledge. And you are trying to assign SOME things you have seen and were reported as being the ONLY way factories in China are run. I have a hard time believing this is factual. And again, thus far you have not shown proof of it, only conjecture.

Originally posted by Animal Mother
That's great, but how much of a life can a person have by working 12 hours a day 7 days a week? The only reason they are not working 24/7 is because the human body wouldn't last long under those conditions. That must suck for the slave masters..

Originally posted by Animal Mother
I invite you, because half of the things I purchased the deciding factor was because it was not made in China. Another one was that all my Sony crap breaks 1 year later.. so most of my electronics were made in Japan by Panasonic. 1% is better than 0%.. 1% is a start in trying to change things in China, to give theses companies a reason to change their work ethics and make policies like Microsoft did for the Xbox.

Originally posted by Animal Mother
Exactly... theses people cannot get an education and choose another line of work. You can join the military and have them pay for half your college education, finical aid, student loans, when you get laid off you have unemployment. Theses people have NONE of this. You do and sit back and think everyone has the same luxury.

Originally posted by Animal Mother
hahahaha... with our dealings with the Chinese government you REALLY think that is so far fetched?

Yes, I do.

Originally posted by Animal Mother
Again.. not reducing, putting pressure on companies to have part of their agreement that their workers have fair working conditions. Dye is too small to do such a thing, but they will grow.. and soon we will need to address theses issue and voice our concerns about their work ethics. Part of being informed... it has to start somewhere, being informed is the first step but I don't see anyone else making that first step.

[UThomas]

do you think Dye would sell as many "Pit shirts" as they do?

To guys like you they would, since you seem to know whats going on and yet still buy their products anyway.

[Troy]

While I think this countries open trade policies with China are wrong it still doesn't justify stealing from Dye.

Would somebody please beat animal mother's computer with a boom stick.

P.S. Dead baby cows taste good.

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by shartley

VERY good point.

Something tells me the word "Karma" is only being used in the figurative sense even though the statment isn't figurative and the figurative use of "Karma" isn't obvious.

If you are going to get into a written argument you should make sure to consider the words you use to express yourself.

[alooney11]

all we aree saaaaaaaying is give peace aaaaaaaaa chaaance.

[SAW]

Night of the Living THREAD!

[ntn4502]

this is why murders happen

[Conversekidz]

Holy old thread batman

[50 cal]

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[FlynnRuss Productions]

what funny is not that dye got ripped off but the fact that most people think that boycotting stuff will make a difference or that they have the power to change somehting or that their elected officials have the power to change it...Everyone here and all over is POWERLESS... Its is called Government. They control what goes on and coverup the stuff they dont want people to know. Yea we may have the best government or whatever but we are still controlled by it and can never get away from it.