Angel 4 press release on paintball.com...warning typical marketing hype...

[raehl]

I think the two places really left to improve markers are reliability and price. Maybe weight.

Even the pros still have guns go down on the field, and games lost to that are, in my opinion, a lot more important than an extra 2 or even 5 bps.

I had occasion to use my girlfriend's bushmaster BKO last weekend for a tournament.... totally stock. It got the job done just fine.

I shoot an E-Mag because it's reliable. Thing always works, even while my teammate's angels go down or have 50 point velocity spikes. (The warp feed and halo can be a little more tempermental.) My old '98 STO cocker has been very reliable as well.


- Chris

[Python14]

My first opinion is let WDP make outlandish claims. Most level headed people buying WDP products realize the truth behind them...that they are high quality piece of paintball shooting equipment with a hefty international price tag and in most respects, are not anymore effective at eliminating opponents than their cheaper, American, stacked tube counterparts.


My other opinion is they are ugly as butt and it makes me want an angel less.

[rx2]

I am reminded of the chant used in a conga-line in an episode of The Simpsons - "You don't win friends with salad."

To put it into the context of this thread, you don't sell markers with boring adds. They are simply employing ages-old practices of hype and mild mirepresentation.

That isn't to say we should just sit back and accept the fact that everyone does it. They are making claims that are misleading to some. But, there IS a sucker born every minute, and I can't blame people for taking advantage of it. People need to start taking things with caution. I can't hate WDP for capitolizing on the fact that most don't.

[Featherlite 80]

WDP has to have hype.

How could they not, there is so much hype around other guns, mainly the timmy, and anything else with a WAS chip. They have to raise the BPS limit because some people are dumb enough to think they can shoot that fast. They use trigger bounce to do it, but they dont care. Which brings me to my next point. Trigger bounce has to go.

Completely.

None of this adjustable crap, so theres a little, but not enough to be easily detected. For tournements, it has to be off, as it zero. Not 3, 2, or 1. If you want to have the ability to use trigger bounce for fun, thats fine, but it has to have a tourney lockout switch, like those used to stop full auto.

However, until every manufacturer does that, WDP has to have those thing there. Idiots have to be able to convince themselves that the angel is the fastest gun, leagally, or illegally, or WDP will lose business. The sole reason why angels became so popular was there speed, but now, with so many competitors, some costing hundreds less, and shooting just as fast, they have to have something else.

What they have is quality. Angels have always been a high quality marker. They rarely go down, not never of course, but rarely, and require minimal maitenance(sp?). With the new low pressure angels, in addition to way-too-sophisticated anti-chop systems, (should have just used ace imo) they promise to be easier on paint then there predecessors.

Now if they could only have a cooler trigger...

All this said, I still dont think they are that much better than an nicely tuned LED or LCD with ace that you could get for hundreds less.



One last comment...

Before someone says it here (it probably wont happen, there are few idiots on AO) it is really anoying when people say that WDP is flooding the market with angel models. WDP currently produces 2 angels. Plus the 2 warped versions and 1 cobra version. The 4 will most likey replace the IR3, and there will be a total of 5 angel versions. How many timies are there? How many imps? exactly.

And just a general question: Is the viking with WAS really capeable of 35 bps cause that sounds like bull**** if I ever heard it. Also what is this new Q loader? I am looking into a new loader...

[raehl]

True trigger bounce no longer exists on any marker. True trigger bounce is where bounces in the microswitch cause more than one shot per pull by buffering the extra bounce events to produce extra shots.

In fact, angels even use a trigger that breaks an IR beam specifically to eliminate trigger bounce.


Now, markers that have trigger pulls that are so light and short that the vibration of the marker causes more than one shot to be fired - well, that's pretty common.


Warpig has a qloader review up - to me, it looks like an expensive way to only get 100 rounds out of a 140 round pod.


- Chris

[Ov3rmind]

Originally posted by Featherlite 80
And just a general question: Is the viking with WAS really capeable of 35 bps cause that sounds like bull**** if I ever heard it.

No bull****.

[Oregon_pb_]

Just remember the Angel 4 is the best at everything and we all must buy one....

In fact we should all order 2 maybe 3 that way we can have one in different colors to match the seasons and we will be best looking paintball player in the world!!!!

[FeelTheRT]

Originally posted by lamby
the human eye can only see between about 20 to 25 different "scenes" per second. Basicly, you are saying you can pull a manual triggered marker faster than the eye can see..

acutally that is not true. The human eye dosn't capture frames. It's a matter of what your brain can process. Light is constantly being reflected off of objects and your eye is constantly absorbing the patterns of colors into what we see as objects. Take a paintball flying across your field of vision for instance. Say you have a 10ft view of the path of the paintball. A paintball is traveling say 300fps. You see a blur of line which is the paintball traveling. You saw every movement of the paintball but since it was so fast, it appears as if it where just a line. In your case, if we were to just see a certain number of frames, it wouldn't be a blur of line. You would see the paintball in a certain location durring a certain time.

other than that, i agree with you on the whole RT Mag ROF thing.

[aaron_mag]

Where can paintball guns go from here?

As someone posted above we have markers that are reliable, fire fast, and don't chop (whether through electric eye or whatever). A reduction in weight would be the next big thing. This would mostly involve reducing tank weight and size. Don't know if that would be possible but that would be really nice!!

[Ov3rmind]

Here are the new trends I expect to come in high end guns:

Light weight (notice the recent increase in sub 2 lb guns)
Small size (everything is obviously getting smaller)
Efficiency (guns are striving for the 1 case per 68/45, and I'm sure some will surpass it eventually)

[rikkter]

could someone list every angel there is? led angel, lcd, year models and all that? i wanna see actually how many there are. lol

[lack of grace]

blah again

hype = advertising that works....

Welcome to the year 2003.

[sneakyhacker420]

forgot about the retro/x-valves... 34.9 CPS from Jack & Coke's cycle test


if there was something that could feed that fast... it would shoot that fast


take that WDP



ps: IMO, WDP is turning into a company such as Kingman

they'll start out with a base gun, and from there they will change a few things over time, and each time they make some small changes, they'll come out with a whole new marker to market... so far, i have always thought that WDP was and still is full of hype

[logamus]

Re: blah again

made me giggle.



the only people i think should be annoyed by this new angel are those that have ir3s. everytime you have a new model come out, the old one loses a ton of value. just ask any college student what happens to the value of their books when a new version comes out. let them hype, and let those with a couple extra grand go buy one. i love my mag, but im not about to pay what an xmag costs for a paintball gun and the vast majority of ballers wont pay what the angel 4 will cost either.

in what areas does paintball improve its products now? i think it has to be cost and efficiency. after all what other areas are there to improve? speed, most if not all guns now can shoot faster than we can pull the trigger. loaders can still improve to keep up with guns, but 99.9% of the world cant outshoot a halo now anyway. weight, not that it was a real major concern anyway, is now closing in on a non-factor. reliability, even formula 1 cars break down from time to time so a gun being 100% 100% of the time is unrealistic. i think reliability has very little room to improve. cost is the biggest area and prolly the most unlikely to improve in favor of the player. but such is life. aftica.

[Wooosh87]

List of Angel guns

Just to answer someone's question about how many versions of Angel's are/were available. I have also listed the Bob Long Intimidator series and SP Impulse series for comparison.
This is totally off the top of my head, so don't even consider this to be complete and accurate. I have put them into two separate categories, stock and Custom. You get the idea...

Angel Series

Base/Stock factory form:

Angel V6 (prototype I think, maybe non US version, anyone?)
Angel LED
Angel LE*
Angel LCD
Angel LCD C&C
Angel LCD Fly
Angel IR3
Angel IR3 C&C
Angel IR3 Fly
Angel Speed
Angel IR4

Aftermarket/Custom form:
(I believe most, if not all, "Custom" styles are made by WDP in-house. Correct me if I am wrong.)

Eclipse LED
Cobra LED
Cobra LCD
Cobra IR3
Warped Sports LCD (Dark)
Warped Sports IR3 (Dark)
Costa/Impact LCD
Costa/Impact IR3
Ripper LCD (Costa/Impact?, can't remember.)
Bonebrake LCD
Bonebrake IR3 (?, not sure if IR3 model is available)
Adrenalin LED
Adrenalin LCD
Lasoya Element LCD (Warped Sports)*
Lasoya CL*SS IR3 (Warped Sportz)*
Rock LCD (Warped Sportz)*
Rock IR3 (Warped Sportz)*
Stars and Stripes LED*
Alien Abduction LED*
Speed Demon (Warped Sportz)*
2000 AD LCD*
Joy Division IR3*
Joy Division LCD* (I think it existed, not positive)
DYE Ironman LCD*

Bob Long Intimidator series
(All custom units are made in-house by Delta)

Base/Stock:

Intimidator (Also called the "Classic")
2K2 Intimidator

Custom/Aftermarket:

GZ Intimidator
"Z Series" Intimidator (Same as GZ, different grip frame)
Ironmen Intimidator
ECX Intimidator
Lasoya/Empire Intimidator
Ripper Intimidator
Storm Intimidator
Dragon
Species*


SP Impulse

Base/Stock:

Impulse
Impulse vert reg
Impulse vision
Impulse vert reg vision

Aftermarket/Custom
(All Custom versions available with vert reg and/or Vision. Not enough time to list each separately. All units are made in-house by SP with the exception of the Python.)

Freak Factory
Ton Ton
Rat
>Python
TKO
Strange
Nasty
Detroit Thunder/Game face
Hypersport Werks
Adrenalin
Toxic
Demonic
Meteor
32 Degrees
Sic*
Voodoo*
Rat JR*
Evil Rat*
Predator*
Cash Money*
Fireball Mountain Gothic*
Atomix*

(>Aftermarket, not made by SP.)

Please remember, this is totally off the top of my head with absolutely no research. I may have a few that are wrong or even missing.
Please feel free to e mail me to add or to correct this list.

Hope this was informative!


Oh, and don't even think about asking me to list all the Autocockers out there, not going to happen! I would venture to guess that well over 100 aftermarket 'Cockers are available. That is being on the low side too!

*(Added by Ov3rmind, thanks for the info!)