Has BPS gotten out of hand?

[SomebodySomeoneRTPcf]

The faster the balls go the happier I am, then I can pretend that no one hit me and I'll just be crying on the ground holding my "balls".

[hitech]

Originally posted by Tom Sparkman
Yes. I try to yell at them (nicely) telling them where they are hit...On a large field I've actually plugged my gun, walked over and showed them where they are hit.

I think that is great. As much as I like to help newbies, I've never done that. Not even close. I've only helped those on my "team" (during a game).

What I'm trying to determine is why so many of us have to take the game so seriously. I know I still suffer from tournamentitis. What is everyone else's excuse?

BTW, I really want to know. When I think about it, I've always had more fun when I acknowledge my opponent's skills (i.e. good shot). Helping someone new to the game get an elimination is better than getting it myself. But I still sometimes feel the need to make sure they are out. Why is that? Why is it that way for you?

[Exodius]

Idiots...

My sig kinda explains this kind of stuff .(Read it).

Anyhow, back when I was just starting to play paintball, there was this one fat kid. This fat kid was the meaning of a poser. He would always talk about how fast his impulse was, how accurate his impulse was, how smart he was, and how great he was. I really think that he thought of himself as a god. Like I said, an idiot.

Well, I said to the fat kid before one game "Well, okay, so your Impulse is fast, but how fast can you pull that trigger." He got pretty mad and gave me the finger. So we went to go and play on the field. He was using his Impulse, and I was using my friend's Emag. Anyhow, he started talking about how gay Mags were and saying stuff like "Anyone who buys a Mag should quit paintball."

So anyhow I got him in the shoulder about a minute into the game. He wiped, cuz by the time the ref got over to him, the hit was gone( my teammate saw him wiping). So anyhow, the kid starts running towards my bunker. Anyhow, I shot him and he got all mad and started swearing. This kid then decided that it would be cool to pummel my neck with paintballs. He emptied about 10 rounds onto me. Then, he went to the deadbox. When this kid was done, Somebody bunkered me, a kid being smart enough to take advantage of the situation. When I got to the dead box, this fat kid started unleashing his paint on me. By the time I got to the staging area, I almost collapsed. The back of my neck was one big bruise.


I really think my sig applies to these kinds of situations...

[hitech]

I'm not talking about "idiots". We have all run into them before.

I'm talking about the responsible players. Most of use keep shooting until they raise their hand. Even if we see it break. After all, it's harder to wipe 5 shots than one.

Are we more willing to accept this now just because it's easy to do and everyone else does it also?

[SomebodySomeoneRTPcf]

If they are not on your team and they are not little you show them by shooting paintball where they are hit works for me and I feel happy.

[UltimatePaintballer]

overshooting and 20+bps

there is nothing wrong with it. Overshooting is either a common mistake or someone wanting to hurt someone. Then people shooting 20+ bps are good or could really suck. If you watch the hunington beach dvd you can see ryan greenspan walking all over the trigger like a pimp with only ONE HAND on the gun. if your that talented do it. also some people that shoot that fast could really suck and are just scared and want you to stay in your bunker. So either sit with your gun and try to shoot fast or just dont worry about it.

[GoatBoy]

This really just boils down to better reffing, in all cases. There hasn't been a single story in all of this where I haven't been wondering, "Man, where were the refs when all this happened?"

People overshoot because of lack of proper reffing. On the one hand, people don't get pulled when they're out, so it makes someone want to shoot more. On the other hand, where are the refs when the overshooting DOES occur? If someone overshoots, the refs need to pull him out and have a little chat. In my eyes, there are three guilty parties in this little game: the wiper, the psycho, and the ref.

Of course, there are going to be varying levels of "necessary and proper", going by the situation.

If you're out -- 0 balls max. That's it. You shouldn't be shooting at all after being eliminated.

If you've blindsided someone close up, I say it's 1-2 balls max. I can't believe that all you guys spend that all money trying buy "premium" paint, and then matching your paint to your barrels and other crap like that, but can't be bothered to target a hard point on the player -- mask, gun, pack. Especially if it's rec-ball and the guy's shooting a Tippmann; I mean, come on guys, that's like 8 feet worth of gun for you to shoot at.

If you both wind up surprising each other close range, as I guess we've seen elsewhere... I can understand the tendency to panic, but we're all seasoned old farts here, right? 1-2 shots should do the trick, again.

The other stuff, at distance, not having a clear shot or not blindsiding someone, is a little more fuzzy. I think that in these instances the "overshooting" should be limited to the accuracy of the gun.

You should really be shooting to hit your target. You shouldn't be shooting to prevent wipes or something. While I can sort of understand this practice, I can't necessarily agree with it. It's rougly analogous to blaming your equipment. We all understand that this is an 'accuracy by volume' based sport as distances become greater, so it's understandable that you may have to throw some extra paint to hit your target at a distance.




hitech: my direct answer to your latest question is, yes, I am more willing to accept some overshooting nowadays. Not because I feel it is necessary, right, natural, or even acceptable in its own right, but because I can accept the fact that there are simply going to be people out there who don't exercise good judgement. If you get too bent out of shape over this stuff, you're going to have trouble dealing with the world in general.

We need better reffing. I'm surprised the insurance companies haven't put out some stronger mandate about this. Until then, lead by example.



Honestly, some of your stories are somewhat frightening.

[hitech]

Originally posted by GoatBoy
This really just boils down to better reffing, in all cases. There hasn't been a single story in all of this where I haven't been wondering, "Man, where were the refs when all this happened?"

That would certainly be a fix. However, I am wondering why we need more refs in a rec ball game? Which leads to you next comment...

Originally posted by GoatBoy
People overshoot because of lack of proper reffing.

Although that is part of it, I don't think it is all of it. I still suffer from tournamentitis (it's a very long lasting disease ) I am usually able to go easy on newbies (if I recognize them as such). I think we should be able to play WITHOUT refs. It's just a game.

Originally posted by GoatBoy
hitech: my direct answer to your latest question is, yes, I am more willing to accept some overshooting nowadays. Not because I feel it is necessary, right, natural, or even acceptable in its own right, but because I can accept the fact that there are simply going to be people out there who don't exercise good judgement. If you get too bent out of shape over this stuff, you're going to have trouble dealing with the world in general.

I certainly agree that getting bent out of shape for the small stuff won't get you anywhere. However, I still wonder why it is tolerated.

Here is something to think about. Honestly, why do you feel the need to keep shooting until the other person calls themselves out?

For me, there are multiple reasons. One, that's the way it's done in tournaments. For me, that mentality has been hard to get over. Especially when everyone else seems to have the same one. Additionally, I feel the need to prove to whomever (maybe myself?) that I am a good player. Can't take a chance that they won't go out. Can't make a mistake. I still won't call myself out until I am SURE that the paintball broke. Regardless of how many extra shots I take.

[Lohman446]

There are two sides to every story
First: I am not that good - however I play a "terminator" style, sometimes its style that matters :)

I was playing a scenario/big game the other day - we were in the main fort but there was someone attacking from the tunnel - no big deal I took a position to the side - gun comes out, hit the hopper, watch it break. Two seconds later - gun comes out a little less, I hit the barrel, watch it break. Now keep in mind I only think this tunnel or stairs actually are big enough for one person. I am now peeved and have decided, next time this person comes out, Im pushing into the stairs and lighting them up - barrel sticks out, I prepare to move - I notice the barrel is a black minimag barrel (I can see the slots) and the barrel I just shot was silver, there were like eight people in the tunnel - boy am I glad I did not overshoot that person. Especially when my next move was to jump off the top of this tunnel (on the other end), try to spin in the air "Matrix" style, and fire down it - I did not stop to think that an eight foot drop is healthy, hit the dirt hard, fell, lost my goggles in the process, the same people who I was so ticked with (without cause) were kind enough to call me out. I owe them, the morale to me, is to always give players the benefit of the doubt, its only recball...

I personally limit myself to three shots - we were playing a game against some players I knew to be new. I decided to practice bunker moving - so I make the last move as I hear him shoot air, and I call for a surrender... he spins around and fires... probably twenty CYCLES (out of paint) at me. I offered to shoot him at point blank range or he could call himself out... but this whole panic thing, happens to startled people.

[hitech]

Originally posted by Lohman446
but this whole panic thing, happens to startled people.

That is another reason. The markers are capable of higher ROF and paniced people fire away.

[RusskiX]

Originally posted by hitech


Can't take a chance that they won't go out.

That pretty much sums it up for me. I only play rec/woodsball and yet I've found that with the general increase in wiping among all levels of play, I need to send enough balls to make someone call themselves out.

Its also psychological. You said yourself that you don't call yourself out until you can check and make sure it broke. Well, if somebody is sending 13+ bps my way, I'll usually assume one broke on me once I start to feel the impacts. Even if they all bounced, I probably won't wait around to verify at that rate.

Also, considering refs are very few in most rec games, you can't rely on them. If I'm playing with ONLY my friends then the honor system works great. But at a typical rec-ball field I'm looking at 2 refs max to judge a 30+ person game. At least in tournaments they try to get a 1:2 ratio of refs to players. In fact my home woods field had the refs STOP doing paintchecks during games this year. Talk about encouraging wipers!

Its kind of a toss-up: If I continously tag someone with two or three balls, but they wipe and/or play on and consequently eliminate people on my team, I usually consider that a sucky day of paintball. Of course, if I "overshoot" to ensure that they leave the field, they usually get pissed and consider that a sucky day. So I ask, who would you prefer to have the sucky day? The cheater or you?

NOTE: This does not apply to newbies! If a newbie tags me 6+ times, I chalk it up to inexperience and will usually just try to explain that 3 shot bursts are more effective and try to educate them.

[cockermongol]

Originally posted by hitech

Are we more willing to accept this now just because it's easy to do and everyone else does it also?

I usually am not one to overshoot someone, but I will never make the same mistake as I did one time at a local rec ball field. There was a lot of heavy fire going on all around and we (my friend and I) were fairly well protected by the surrounding trees. There was one nice window through the growth that made for the perfect shooting lane since it covered a common area where the opposing team would cross (basically firing across the skirmish line that was forming at the time). So I was standing there firing random balls into the brush to make sure they don't try to push up so my team can make their way down and get better positions when this guy slides into a bunker about 10 yards away from me. I took a steady aim and caught him in the shoulder with a ball. He got hella pissed off and turned around and starting shooting at me and my friend, one of which caught me in the mouth covering part of my mask (filling my mouth with paint) and my friend and I put about 30 balls on him altogether after he returned fire. That moment has now officially decided for the rest of my paintball career that overshooting is not bad. I had time to aim at the guy, and looking back I know he wouldn't have shot back if I put about 10 balls on him, and if he even turned I would just fan the trigger until he thought he was done. That is the way I see that it has to be done. If your hand is not in the air then you have not acknowledged that you are out and I will fire until they are. When I start to get shot and I don't know where it's coming from my hands go straight up in the air, so in my life I have taken very minimal bonus balls (I don't like taking bonus balls so I didn't like giving them). My entire aspect on overshooting has changed since that day and I will never let it happen again. Aggressive movements of people who are 'dead' are grounds enough to let them know that you mean serious business and if they try shooting back they will feel the true meaning of pain.

[hitech]

So, does everyone think it is fair to say that a large majority of paintball players are aggressive/competitive? That being so it seems that far to many of us have had something happen that makes us insure that the other guy is out. It's too bad. We should try and remember that there is almost always first time players on the other side and we should try and make sure they have fun too.

I'll never forget the tournament where the opponents called for paint checks to get you to stop shooting at them! Or where they raised their hand to get you to stop only to put it down and shoot it a ref didn't notice. And I'm still going to try and go easier on the newbies....

[Steelrat]

Oh man, I read far too often about players calling paint check on an opponent, then moving up as the ref checks em. Thats just not right. I guess those players figure they dont have enough skill to win at a fair fight.

[Lohman446]

Sometimes, things happen, its best not to get bent out of shape over

I was playing recball the other day, standing in the dead box early (I suck and often visit the dead box early). Now in fairness I need to clarify that most people don't use the deadbox, instead going off field to get more paint or acting as refs. While some new player sees me from behind his bunker (my marker is at my feet) and opens fire with about 30 balls in my direction (only a few of which hit). In retrospect, FUNNY.