Has BPS gotten out of hand?

[845]

In tournies i will shoot until the raise their hand. In rec games I shoot them once or twice trying to hit something hard like a pack or a hopper. When I bunker people i shoot em in the pack or just say they r out. If they know whats good for them they leave it at that.

[GoatBoy]

Mmmm... multiquotes...

Originally posted by hitech


That would certainly be a fix. However, I am wondering why we need more refs in a rec ball game? Which leads to you next comment...

Although that is part of it, I don't think it is all of it. I still suffer from tournamentitis (it's a very long lasting disease ) I am usually able to go easy on newbies (if I recognize them as such). I think we should be able to play WITHOUT refs. It's just a game.

Like it or not, I think recball is the most visible arm of our sport. Not tournament, but recball. Not only is it the most visible, it's also the most ignorant. That's why there should be more refs than what is currently practiced on a recball game. One is simply not enough. It's not good for our sport for newbies and their parents to be subjected to crappy playing from other newbies and psychos. That, and the general clue during recball games is lower, so obviously the refs will play a larger role. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people yell "HIT!" then try to continue playing because they realized it didn't break.

The ref's aren't there just to make sure everyone plays fairly. Playing fairly isn't an end in itself. It's a means to an end. In the end, you want everyone to enjoy themselves and come back and play some more. Unfair and stupid play sucks the fun out of paintball. And that's the worst part. Well, besides an actual injury. That's the worst.

I would love to play without refs. I've been pondering something like this lately... But anyways, I would only do so under controlled conditions, i.e. with my own group of friends that I knew. Playing paintball is like playing Counter-Strike for me. I don't like playing online due to the sheer volume of cheaters. I have much more fun playing it at lan parties with people I know.

Originally posted by hitech

I certainly agree that getting bent out of shape for the small stuff won't get you anywhere. However, I still wonder why it is tolerated.

Here is something to think about. Honestly, why do you feel the need to keep shooting until the other person calls themselves out?

For me, there are multiple reasons. One, that's the way it's done in tournaments. For me, that mentality has been hard to get over. Especially when everyone else seems to have the same one. Additionally, I feel the need to prove to whomever (maybe myself?) that I am a good player. Can't take a chance that they won't go out. Can't make a mistake. I still won't call myself out until I am SURE that the paintball broke. Regardless of how many extra shots I take.

People generally don't go to recball to play tournament-style paintball. They go to play recball. The church group that happens to be out there playing with you isn't really interested in being overshot, or even in how good you are. They're just out there to have fun. You've got nothing to prove, and you're not going to prove it by overshooting. And you're not going to gain anything from it.

Let me put it another way. There's a common notion in training that in order to benefit from sparring a lesser opponent, you have to limit yourself. If you're grappling, and the other guy is a nub that can't defend armbars very well, what good is it to you if you tap him out time and time again with an armbar? Try beating him with something else! If you two step in a ring and you open a can of wupass on a lesser sparring partner, what do you gain? You haven't gained a single thing. In fact, if you wind up hurting your training partner, all you've done is lost a training partner. A lot of good that's going to do you.





Since we're all in story mode, I'll go over an "overshooting" incident of my own, in which I was actually the overshooter.

Near the end of a game, I was keeping tabs on one of the opposing team's players who had taken a position near the center of the field. One of my teammates decided to run the "snake", and actually got past the guy in the middle without realizing. So the guy in the middle decided to get up and chase my teammate down.

As he ran, his back was completely exposed to me, so I took the shot. I put one onto his pack. He kept running. He wouldn't have heard me yell "you're hit", and I looked around, and the ref was nowhere in sight. So I went ahead and put a second one on his pack again. I don't think he noticed this hit either. No ref in sight again. Crap, I gotta get this guy's attention somehow, so I put two more into him. By this time *I* was up and running so my shot was off and I got him in the shoulder, and I think that got his attention. Obviously, he wasn't wiping or anything; he was up on the run and I was putting them on his pack on purpose, so he didn't feel much.

Why did I 'overshoot'? NO REF. Plain and simple. I wasn't trying to hurt the guy or fill some weird sadistic need. I needed to let the guy know he was out, and that was really the only way. Had a ref been there, he would have called it.


A refresher on the rules, although some of you have already stated it... If you shoot and you see something break, and they don't call themselves out, you call a paint check on that player. Then the REF goes over and checks them. Notice a recurring theme here? That's the way it's supposed to work. Getting shortchanged on the ref situation doesn't justify going nuts on the trigger though.

[RT pRo AuToMaG]

A guy on my team is a sore loser, he wipes, overshoots, the works. He bunkers me, shoots me like 20 times, that's ok. I shot him off the break in one on one, 3 times, he wipes (everyone saw it, but he wiped before the ref checked him) and he comes and shoots me like 8 times, after I call myself out and shoot him 2 more times, and this is during practice, it counts for nothing. Now, he's an O.K. player, not the best, but decent enough to hold his own. It just upsets me that he has to cheat in practice against his own team members.

/end rant

but anyway, I think with markers capiable of shooting such high rates of fire, bonus balling is unavoidable. Don't tell me I have to learn how to control it, no one can control it. I can shoot about 16-17 bps (i play back), and if someone sticks their head out in the middle of a stream of paint, I can't pull that paint out the air. Yes, I can stop shooting, but unless i can do it in about a thousandth of a second, they are getting at least 4 on them. I do bonus ball some people on purpose, but not to be mean, not to hurt them, but to win (talking about tourney ball here). I'm not going to spend hundreds of dollars at a tourney and lose b/c I thought i shot someone and it bounced, or if someone wipes. I'd never ever shoot someone 10 times on purpose, but what can I say, **** happens when you are trying to watch 10 guys on a field and communicate with your own team at the same time.

[logamus]

the only times i have ever overshot anyone was due to their not calling themselves out. as far as im concerned thats the only reason there should be any overshooting. if you put one or two on someone and they keep playing, well they prolly need one or two more to get the message. and i agree with goatboy that the reffing in rec games is generally poor and thats really sad. the rec game side of pb is where 99.9% of players get their start and we all know bad habits are hard to break. if someone gets started off playing with overshooting and other "less acceptable" actions, its much harder to stop as they get older and more involved in the sport.

[hitech]

Originally posted by GoatBoy
People generally don't go to recball to play tournament-style paintball. They go to play recball. The church group that happens to be out there playing with you isn't really interested in being overshot, or even in how good you are. They're just out there to have fun.

Actually, that is the point I am trying to make. I don't want to overshoot anyone. However, it's becoming more and more acceptable. I'm wondering why, and that is the first step toward changing it. I don't have a problem not overshooting newbies, but I still tend to shoot until a hand goes up.

Originally posted by GoatBoy
There's a common notion in training that in order to benefit from sparring a lesser opponent, you have to limit yourself.

It doesn't work the same for paintball. It's not one on one, and you don't know the abilities of your opponent ahead of time. If I went out with a group of all newbies, I'd take a pump.

Originally posted by GoatBoy
Why did I 'overshoot'?

I don't know if I would really call that overshooting. Regardless, if that was the only type of overshooting going on I wouldn't have posted this! However, I do see you point about having enough refs. That makes sense.