WAS proclaims VIKING = FASTEST MARKER AVAILABLE @ 40 CPS stock! (no video)

[SlartyBartFast]

Originally posted by afrankart
Froth's claim to 40 CPS has absolutely nothing to do with any product that he manufactures and produces.

Which is part of why people were initially impressed.

Then the quality of the recording and Froth's own admissions questioned the validity of the data.

So we wait for something more reliable......

[wyn1370]

can somebody please point me to the AGD video of the retro cycling at top speed?

[SlartyBartFast]

Originally posted by wyn1370
can somebody please point me to the AGD video of the retro cycling at top speed?

Plenty of video out there. At least of Automags doing full auto at 20 bps shooting paint. Tom, Butterfingers, the guys from HALO...

And I even think there was one at 30cps with no paint.

And I'd love to see a proper test done with the data avaialble to show that there's no shootdown. But there have been graphs in Deep Blue showing the AIR valve recharge rate compared to other valves/regulators so it's very believable that 20 bps is viable for the Automag.

But wyn, from your post I will asume that you've missed the point of the thread. The point is not to put down other markers and promote the Automag. It's to demand proof of one manufacturers marketing claims of 40 cps.

I think anybody making claims of cps is a joke to begin with. Without paint the marker is useless so who cares.

I think all markers should be tested over a chronograph to prove what bps they can reliably fire at without shootdown or other unacceptable deviation.

Until someone is setup to do that independantly, the call for those making the claims to put up or shut up is valid.

[wyn1370]

nah, I'm just complaining cause AGD has never done their own video (26cps or other). Yet everyone wants other manufacturers to do this. And butters doesn't work for AGD, he was doing a video of the emagnum board.

[SlartyBartFast]

Originally posted by wyn1370
nah, I'm just complaining cause AGD has never done their own video (26cps or other). Yet everyone wants other manufacturers to do this. And butters doesn't work for AGD, he was doing a video of the emagnum board.

Well, EMagnum or not, that was still a standard E-Mag/Retro valve.

But also, the only claims that AGD have made were recharges to 26bps. The regulator recharge rate graphs in Deep Blue proved that.

Heck, if anything AGD seems to downplay their performance.

[Jack & Coke]

Note: I'm not against any marker. I think it's dumb to playa-hate (marka-hate?)

When someone boasts numbers at the cutting edge of todays marker performance, is it so wrong to ask,

"wow! how did you come up with those numbers?"

As far as shootdown goes, all of the "40+ cps Viking" claims are made with a non-operational marker (i.e. they all put the bolt in upside-down).

So, is it really a complete cycle, if the gun can't shoot balls at 300 fps?

[afrankart]

I have bounced my viking as fast as it will go with stock everything. I tried with the bolt in backwards and forwards. To my ears (I don't have recording equipment) there is no audible difference in rof. The ONLY thing that putting the bolt in backwards does is reduce air consumption and keep you from getting a headache.

[Butterfingers]

feed the thing!!!

http://paintball.butters.org

it probably can go faster... i dunno the e-magnum was sold ages ago...

The bolt was in upside down sideways and at 15, 30, 45, 75 degree angles for this test.

Having the bolt in backwards sure does matter... it reduces air consumption to the point that the regulator and the internals have to move less air. Thereby higher speeds are acheivable.

I wouldent be so fast to discount the tests either the stacked tube design has been around for years. Given an adequate air supply I could make a spyder cycle at 50 cps. The mechanical design of the gun is capable.

Wether or not the bolt is open long enough to allow proper feeding is a diffrent story. I have not yet seen a consistent video of a gun firing over 25 bps at regular intervals with the feeding equipment we have today.

[pbjosh]

Again-

For timing issues, I was setting up a Morlock Board, which was set in Single Soleniod mode. The On time was 15ms (12 worked just as well, IIRC, but I didn't lower the total cycle time. 8ms might have had a low velocity, but the gun did cycle) and the Total cycle time (time between each cycle) was 28ms.

Or, 35.7 signals/cycles per second was sent from the board. The solenoid was on for 15ms, and off for 13ms. In Full Auto the gun cycled without a mishap. In Semi I could easily fire at a consistant 280-285. The bolt returned fully far enough back that you could see it open all the way (by looking into the feedneck.)

Hence, a FULL cycle, including a FULL velocity shot, was obtained. At 36cps. By me. I am not selling anything viking related, nore am I sponcered or otherwise. Just a guy tinkering in his backyard.

Mind you, this is a Morlock board. No 'bounce filter' or otherwise, just a straight forward per shot and cycle in FA.

The issue is mute concerning the Vikings ability to run at 40cps. I, having come really close with a stock setup without even trying, figure it would take about 1 more half hour to tune it down to run that fast.

Like it was fore-mentioned:

The Viking CAN cycle that fast. Since the WAS, and a couple other boards, can be timed by the millisecond, then any one of them would be able to cycle the viking at that speed.

Do not doubt that quite a few guns can cycle at that nearly the same CPS (note, CPS is different than BPS, and that argument is, again, mute. We ARE talking about setting the time to allow the hammer/bolt to cycle all the way forward, releasing enough energy for one shot, then fully returning to the back position) and if a longer load time was added, 10ms worth, it would be shown that the top end STEBBs can all shoot close to that speed.

Again I am not supporting anything. I am relating my experiences from the similar test with a morlock. The Intimidator is set to have 8ms 'ON' time. If the return/opening/'OFF' time for the marker was even twice that then the total time is 24ms per cycle. Add that up really really quick.

So, yes, to answer your question Jack & Coke-

That was a full 285fps shot. The LPR was set low enough that I was quite confortable putting my finger in the feedneck and running full auto, and the resulting pressure was quite a bit lighter than a Jam Enterprises bolt, so I didn't have the LPR cranked to a level I wouldn't use in a game.

The Viking can do it.

Josh

[_Spork_1]

The Speed with an Equalizer board (with eye system) is blazingly fast, and probably the fastest paintball marker setup in existance

though it isn't a stock speed, WAS does like to promote what ever new item they're trying to sell.

[pbjosh]

When I did the Racegun setups, I said:

"The Racegun grip doesn't make it faster. It just lets it run as fast as it always could."

The limit is the person behind the gun.

In the case of WAS, it isn't the board, it was the gun. Adding electronics allows millisecond timing action.

What ever time the WAS board produces can be duplicated with any board that is setup with the same on and off time for the solenoid.

The board is easy to time, and to the ms, so the gun, which previously had a cap, is now unleased.

I just did it over a year before WAS did.

Do I get the sticker?

Josh