Tac_One, AGD isn't Fooling Around Any More>>

[Aegis]

how about a basic configuration to get the price point down for the masses, and a "custom shop" version? Looking at how Tippmann markets the A5 and M98 in particular. Their pro shop configurations seem pricy to me, but a lot of people are going for it.

Maybe a carbon fiber grip/classic valve/non ULT for the entry level, and pro shop configurations with all the ULE goodness. Not a scenario player, but it seems to me that they go for appearances more than rate of fire enhancements.

Hey - I just noticed - Tippmann's web site has a flatline image for "nitrogen accessories" in their pro shop.

Ok, my prices:
Low end - about $75 more than a TKO, w/o the ULE parts
High end - depends, what is the RT PRO going to go for?

[judster]

Re: are you sure you're not fooling around?

Originally posted by GoatBoy

I have no idea what's backing this motivation to win over "scenario" ball; you can point to some scenario games and such, but that's like a once-in-a-while thing. The regulars I know aren't heavy into the scenario aura. I hope that in the anti-tournament backlash, there isn't confusion between recball and scenario ball. The difference between the two being that the latter likes to "dress up" more for the occasion, and this seems to extend to the gun, not just camo.

i dont think tom is trying to win over anyone here....the market is there in the scenario world. for such a long time the 'big guys' have over looked the scenario aspect and focoused more on tourney. now as scenario is growing they are taking notice(tippmann, WDP, AGD,...) and there is pretty much a big scenario every month across the US. MXS puts on 12-14 games a year, and thats not mentioning all the others(viper, bblackcat, mmp, opforce,...)these games easily reach over a 100 people. the last MXS game in purcell, OK reached 275, as opposed to last years turnout of under 150 at the same location. whats happening is there are more and more good scenario games happening each year, and the market is growing. why shouldnt AGD want to back that? i for one am thankful that this is happening, and wish tom the best of luck in the scenario world.

[WARPED1]

Originally posted by hostage
Hrmm...I don't really see a market for this, thats just my opinion. It seems like a lot of people are just into speedball.

Maybe a low end price 450. Duno about a highend 700ish?
-Doron

Only 3% of the 7 million players a year play "tournament" style(speedball), theres a huge market for scenario guns.

[Marek]

Originally posted by Kevmaster
However, I have to think, as an ex-store manager, I'd be awfully unhappy if AGD started selling a product factory direct that was (perhaps) NICER than a marker I sold (made by the same company) that was LOWER than your MSRP on that marker (the RT Pro). That is to say: If you sold it lower than the MSRP on teh RT Pro, I'd be unhappy if i was still a dealer

I am not a store manager, but I was thinking the same thing. Also, wouldn't the resale value of X-valve drop? Or the resale value of the guns (Classic, RTP etc.)themselves drop? I am far from a business major, so I could be very well wrong. I would love to see this thing take off and sell like crazy, but wouldn't the overall big picture suffer? Just my rant.

[GoatBoy]

Originally posted by WARPED1
Only 3% of the 7 million players a year play "tournament" style(speedball), theres a huge market for scenario guns.

Woohoo! Actual numbers!




Where'd you get the numbers?


What are you basing your market share on?

[dinger]

just exactly what are the specs on this gun??

[AutomagRT1483]

$350 - $550, just let me know where I can send the money.

[WARPED1]

Originally posted by GoatBoy



Woohoo! Actual numbers!




Where'd you get the numbers?


What are you basing your market share on?

Official results posted in APG or WARPIG(can't remember which).

[spacedtedybear]

750-high
450-low

[Meph]

Where can you get numbers? Well that's only for national events, also add in all the local tournaments. But then again APG isn't exactly what I personally consider reliable. They shall never, in my life, live down that review they gave to the RamRod Barrel! Shows their caliber.


Now what would I personally have to guess is the number of official Tournament players to Recball players. Mind you Scenarios and Big games fit into Recball, along with recreational speedball that is not a tournament. So your average weekend warrior who only plays speedball is still under Recball.

My numbers take 'em or leave 'em.

Tournament : 5%
Recball : 95%



How could I get that figure? Just WAG? Nope. Look at the numbers. If there are indeed 8.5 million people a year who play paintball, even if it's just once, how many of those do you think even have tournaments to go to? Take your roster from NPPL, NXL, PSP.... that's only a couple thousand players tops! A couple thousand out of the 8.5 million is not even scratching the surface. Add in Millenium Series, Pan Am, and all the locals. Still that's only several THOUSAND. Not even 1 million yet, not even close! Even with all the 50-dollar entry fee, only 3 team showing up events!

So that leaves... lets round that to 8million. 8mil play recball only. Out of that with all the concept fields popping in and players moving to those gradually, that's a few hundred thousand that play strictly speedball.

The rest, let's just say 6million (I'm low-ballin here), play in the woods. Or even woods and speedball both. But no tournament. These are your average, run-of-the-mill players that drive this sport. These recballers are what keep paint prices as low as they are, keep sales up as high as they are, and what keep this industry alive!

Believe it or not if tournaments left today all together the only thing the paintball world would lose is the people who get to try out all the nifty new gadgets first. That's it really. Financially the industry would be in fine shape.

HOWEVER if all the recballers instantly left.... paintball would crumble.


So who here is the REAL market? Those few thousand who play tournaments? Or those few MILLION that drive the sport!


Don't give me that "Tom kissin ***" or "Win over" bull****. He's just smart enough to know what the market is now. YOU obviously aren't, but at least people who know the real facts know.


This is in NO way about Tourney VS Recball, which is better. If you think that's what this is about then please re-read because you lost the point entirely. It's about what the market is, what the majority of the market wants, and what market will supply the largest demand.

[Cilio - Knightmare Tango]

Over 160 games scenario/big games are listed on scenariopaintballcalendar.com alone for 2003.

[WARPED1]

No, my numbers come from a poll of all types of players in the US, and result was 3% for speedball type games.

[judster]

Originally posted by Cilio - Knightmare Tango
Over 160 games scenario/big games are listed on scenariopaintballcalendar.com alone for 2003.

hey dave you dont happen to have the number of games from last year do ya? i can almost say that 160 is double from last year. and that,im sure will grow in 04.

[dinger]

what's a Tac One

[ChucktheMAGician]

Most people seem to be giving good prices. I think the ULT and LX may be a bit for current non-mag owners to learn at once. Lx can be frustrating enough but then put the ULT in there and chuff a few and you've got some mad customers that are gonna complain. Has anyone mentioned whether the bodies will be sold seperately?!

--OK after reading page 2 most of what I thought was already posted

Oh and about scenario players vs. speedball players. Wouldn't on average the scenario player be older, thus having a larger amount of disposable income?!!