Tac_One, AGD isn't Fooling Around Any More>>

[tony3]

Originally posted by RusskiX

I agree wholeheartedly. The mid-range market is largely dead. Look at buying practices for most new players. Start with a $150 blowback and then they either spend money incrementally to upgrade as their budget allows OR they just jump to the high end electro for their next purchase.

Exactly why smart parts is dominating the mid price market. There isn't much of a 400-600 dollar electro gun range. Their is bushys but most people will take an imp over a bushy, the imp will have more upgrades and the like. If you want an electro for 400 thats an upgrade over your spyder people look right to imps.

[Collegeboy]

[Restola]

CB nailed it.

Players like me who will never play in a tourny (for many reasons) want every feature the tac-one is slated to have.

[Kevmaster]

Originally posted by cledford

Your statements may or may not be true. Frankly, cockers used to go for dirt cheap - because shops knew that they would get the same amount of profit and more over the FULL RETAIL value of the marker in additonal parts, upgrades, and repair sales. The same is true with the Tippmann stuff - the shops can't shove them out the door fast enough because of all of the return sales. I see at my retailer an A5 cost exactly the same as it would go for online - for the simple reason that they'll sell a ton more crap for it and make profit that way.

Think about your classic speed shop. They don't sell cars, but they sure as heck stay in business selling parts, and upgrades for them.

However, there in lies the problem, every part on a cocker can be replaced with a better and higher priced aftermarket. Thus: profit. Same with a timmy. However, what will you replace on the Tac-One thats not there?
ULE Body? You won't get one if you get a Tac-One. You'd get an RT Pro
ULT Trigger? Ok...theres $10
Y-Frame? Unlikely.

theres nothing to put on it. Its likethat car shop selling a tricked car at no profit. They wouldnt do it because it wouldnt generate return profit other tha repairs...but we all know about AGD markers and repairs right?

[speedyejl]

Ugh, heres a new school of pesimistic thoguht

Tom, sell it so you make a profit, done. Maybe sell it to cheaper to dealers but include a composite frame on it. So that way maybe dealers can turn some profit selling I-Frames and Ygrips.

Doesn't help if it storms the market and your losing money on each sold. Who knows maybe people in the scenerio comunity might not have an apeal for mags and you won't take the market by storm, at least make some money on the ones you do manage to offload.

[sneakyhacker420]

Originally posted by speedyejl
Ugh, heres a new school of pesimistic thoguht

Tom, sell it so you make a profit, done. Maybe sell it to cheaper to dealers but include a composite frame on it. So that way maybe dealers can turn some profit selling I-Frames and Ygrips.

Doesn't help if it storms the market and your losing money on each sold. Who knows maybe people in the scenerio comunity might not have an apeal for mags and you won't take the market by storm, at least make some money on the ones you do manage to offload.

agreed... look how many A-5's have sold with a single trigger

and with the ULE trigger and RT valve... it'll be lighter than the a-5's pull

may i also suggest tuning LX and ULT in-house before its shipped out...


just my .02

-Sneaky

[Barfly]

OK, here it goes. Forget about worrying about making the x-valve work with CO2, because if it isn't going to be reliable all the time in various weather conditions with CO2 I wouldn't want it. It needs to be reliable in these conditions and the gun needs to look the part. I call it a gun, because the A-5 looks more like a gun than a marker, so the looks should be another selling point. Forget the Intelliframe, the A-5 is a single trigger and it sells like hotcakes. Include the LX though it should be one of the few luxuries, besides being reliable on CO2 the Tac One should need. Preferably cheap in the 350 range would be nice, just don't include too many options than it becomes more of an expensive tourney type marker stock.

[nickname]

hey guys this thing has a ULT.
Cool
1 More gun that i will have to buy
ULE mag
X-Mag
Thank you Tom, you are a friend to paintballers everywhere.

[Major Ho]

Do you guys realize that the VF tactical cocker goes for like $650. I think the Tac-One should be very competitive with this price. I really dont see anything above and beyond the normal cocker specs with the VF tac. To put the Tac-One with Xvalve, and Intelli at the $650 range is more than fair.
On a side note Get that all black action goin on to, kinda like Rogues black oxide screws for his all black frames.
Id hate to have a bit of shiney metal showing to throw the whole color scheme off.

[rehme]

this is me i would rather have a classic valve instead of a x valve so i could use this for woods ball.

[Z-man]

Originally posted by Major Ho
On a side note Get that all black action goin on to, kinda like Rogues black oxide screws for his all black frames.
Id hate to have a bit of shiney metal showing to throw the whole color scheme off.

Too bad those black oxide screws rust... I aggree with that non-shiny comment but do they make non rusting black screws? I replaced all my black oxide ones with stainless simply so they won't rust...

[Enos Shenk]

Someone linked this up from the Tippmann forum, i read a few pages and decided to register here to post my views.

First off, im just your average weekend warrior. I play woods, and occasionally speedball just for the fun of it. I shot a tippmann A5 for a year and a half until i sold it because i geek out on my computer more then i paintball anymore. I plan on getting back into the game sometime, because i know i can never just walk away from paintball.

That said, ive always admired the hell out of AGD. Ive shot a friends mag, ang thought it was pretty awesome. But my lowly woods field with a customer base of people like me that just play to have a good time doesnt fill HPA. I also dont believe in "high end", i believe in the right gun for you. The purple and flash anodized stuff, and electro stuff matters about as much to me as womens perfume. I simply dont need it. If my gun shoots a paintball when i pull the trigger at 300fps, and wont break down an inordinate amount of time, and can drink co2, and will run in the rain, and deal with me banging around into stuff when i take a face plant dodging fire, then it gets my stamp of approval. All the chrome widgets and 3-ways that shorten trigger pull by .001mm means nothing to me.

Now as i see it, the idea of creating a woods or scenario mag is a great one. But i see pitfalls to avoid, which i have no doubt that my second most admired company in the industry can avoid. Firstly is the price as has been discussed here. I like cockers too, and i like the vf-tactical, i think it looks pretty solid, and cool. But the day that i pay $650 for a black painted '03 cocker with a metal pneumatics rail/shroud will be the day i hit the lottery.

If this woods-mag idea is truly aimed at the common joe that just plays because its a damn fun game (example, me) then it should definately be priced at the "high low-end" area such as the tippmann A5. But myslf personally, i wouldnt buy one of these if it wouldnt drink co2. Sorry, but as ive said my field doesnt fill HPA, and im not driving 45 minutes across town to the proshop every time i want to fill my tank.

Im not saying that any newb should be able to run the tank directly into the valve and expect stellar performance, but my old A5 with a simple cheap expansion chamber could rip out an entire hopper, have the entire gun covered in ice, and still not miss a shot. That right there is high and above the most important factor in purchasing a new gun.

Did i also mention i think this is a great business move, getting people to buy a cheaper priced mag, and hopefully work their way up the product line.

As for the folks that dont believe theres a market for this, consider this. Tippmann recently announced a barrel thread change on the 98 custom. The serial number for the changeover was around 495,000. Now doing some basic math and assuming for the sake of an example that every one of those 98's sold off the shelf for an average cost of $120, that gives us an end result of $59,400,000. Now granted the 98 sells so well because its the newbie gun of choice, but it shows that there IS a market of average weekend warriors just waiting for a solid gun.

[Duke Henry]

Originally posted by Enos Shenk
Someone linked this up from the Tippmann forum, i read a few pages and decided to register here to post my views.

First off, im just your average weekend warrior. I play woods, and occasionally speedball just for the fun of it. I shot a tippmann A5 for a year and a half until i sold it because i geek out on my computer more then i paintball anymore. I plan on getting back into the game sometime, because i know i can never just walk away from paintball.

That said, ive always admired the hell out of AGD. Ive shot a friends mag, ang thought it was pretty awesome. But my lowly woods field with a customer base of people like me that just play to have a good time doesnt fill HPA. I also dont believe in "high end", i believe in the right gun for you. The purple and flash anodized stuff, and electro stuff matters about as much to me as womens perfume. I simply dont need it. If my gun shoots a paintball when i pull the trigger at 300fps, and wont break down an inordinate amount of time, and can drink co2, and will run in the rain, and deal with me banging around into stuff when i take a face plant dodging fire, then it gets my stamp of approval. All the chrome widgets and 3-ways that shorten trigger pull by .001mm means nothing to me.

Now as i see it, the idea of creating a woods or scenario mag is a great one. But i see pitfalls to avoid, which i have no doubt that my second most admired company in the industry can avoid. Firstly is the price as has been discussed here. I like cockers too, and i like the vf-tactical, i think it looks pretty solid, and cool. But the day that i pay $650 for a black painted '03 cocker with a metal pneumatics rail/shroud will be the day i hit the lottery.

If this woods-mag idea is truly aimed at the common joe that just plays because its a damn fun game (example, me) then it should definately be priced at the "high low-end" area such as the tippmann A5. But myslf personally, i wouldnt buy one of these if it wouldnt drink co2. Sorry, but as ive said my field doesnt fill HPA, and im not driving 45 minutes across town to the proshop every time i want to fill my tank.

Im not saying that any newb should be able to run the tank directly into the valve and expect stellar performance, but my old A5 with a simple cheap expansion chamber could rip out an entire hopper, have the entire gun covered in ice, and still not miss a shot. That right there is high and above the most important factor in purchasing a new gun.

Did i also mention i think this is a great business move, getting people to buy a cheaper priced mag, and hopefully work their way up the product line.

As for the folks that dont believe theres a market for this, consider this. Tippmann recently announced a barrel thread change on the 98 custom. The serial number for the changeover was around 495,000. Now doing some basic math and assuming for the sake of an example that every one of those 98's sold off the shelf for an average cost of $120, that gives us an end result of $59,400,000. Now granted the 98 sells so well because its the newbie gun of choice, but it shows that there IS a market of average weekend warriors just waiting for a solid gun.

Well said, Enos. I agree that if they can make it take CO2 then another strong option exists for players who can't/won't spend a boatload on a gun.

Also, welcome to AO!

[FutureMagOwner]

well i suppose the simple solution to the co2 thing would be to have it come with an expansion chamber?

[Big_M]

They would have to modify the X-valve first, and then an expansion chamber might be able to get rid of most of the problems, but if you try to CO2 with an un modified X-valve, it just won't work out, expansion chamber or not