Possible Resolution to the 3.2 Problem.

[Smokee_2_7]

switched the wires in mine today. workes like a charm. No more 'bouncy' or full auto spot.

Let me point out again that my x mag had this 'spot' on the trigger with its original 2.1 (i think it was .1) software, as well as with 3.0.


Thanks for figuring this one out, tom!


Carl

[pbzmag]

Originally posted by cphilip
Please report software version your switching wires on. Most of you are 3.2 but someone out there is going to do one that is having muliple fire on a previous software version and we want to know if its this or is something else on those. If it does not work for you thats even MORE important to know. Other issues can cause this or similar thing. We need to weed those out.

As I reported earlier, I have 2.4 and have FA when pulling the trigger at a certain spot. I changed the solinoid leads over the weekend and have not been able to get FA. Only one-shot-per-pull for the entire length of the trigger pull.

[raehl]

You know..

I have to say that this new software really disturbs me. Shots should NOT be bufferred. If the gun isn't done cycling when you get another trigger event, that event should be discarded, not bufferred - you're effectively shooting the gun when the trigger hasn't been pulled. This is the same thing that caused the shockers to "burst fire" back in 1998 - you'd get more than one trigger event (due to switch boune in that case), the gun would buffer the extra events, and then shoot another shot for each bufferred event after the current cycle was over.

Not as bad, no, but still not right.


- Chris

[MantisMag]

i had a thought along those lines. i asked about the 3.2 software in another thread and was told that only one shot is buffered. as long as it stays that way i don't see a problem.

[DiRTyBuNNy]

Re: You know..

Originally posted by raehl
I have to say that this new software really disturbs me. Shots should NOT be bufferred. If the gun isn't done cycling when you get another trigger event, that event should be discarded, not bufferred - you're effectively shooting the gun when the trigger hasn't been pulled. This is the same thing that caused the shockers to "burst fire" back in 1998 - you'd get more than one trigger event (due to switch boune in that case), the gun would buffer the extra events, and then shoot another shot for each bufferred event after the current cycle was over.

Not as bad, no, but still not right.


- Chris

And WAS boards are any different?

[raehl]

I don't know what WAS boards do.

And "something else does it" it is a stupid argument.


- Chris

[DiRTyBuNNy]

and so is the fact that the paintball world revolves around tournament players...as if most people could care less...but that's not going to change either..

[cgrieves]

Tsk I posted ages ago that reversing my HES fixed the full auto problem..... Nobody ever listens to me!

[cphilip]

Originally posted by DiRTyBuNNy
and so is the fact that the paintball world revolves around tournament players...as if most people could care less...but that's not going to change either..

Sad but true!

Chris,

First of all it does not shoot any more than is pulled. It just records the missed pull and then delivers it. Before it would just skip it. Its still releasing one ball per trigger pull. This is the argument that other marker manufacturers are hiding behind and getting away with for years.

Lets crusade against it but lets first start the crusade by getting all the other marker makers out there to agree to drop it. No ones making a stink about them at all. And AGD is being dragged into keeping up. Were were the cries of foul when all these other markers the Q shots were getting past Crono? No place but here! And if you can't lick em...ya gotta join em. I with you on this Chris but I see no evidence that anyone else is going to do anything about it. It has to start where it began. And this is not where it did.

[SlartyBartFast]

Originally posted by cphilip
Its still releasing one ball per trigger pull. This is the argument that other marker manufacturers are hiding behind and getting away with for years.

While I can't stand the tournament scene and question the operation of other markers, I think the analysis of the situation by cphilip and Chris is wrong.

Queing a shot or two does not mean that you are shooting before the marker has finished cycling. An Automag cycles at what speed? We've seen it at 30 cps, let's use that figure.

30 cps means the marker has cycled and is ready to fire in 0.03 of a second.

Without queueing, if you have your max rof set at 10, the program would only check the trigger .1 of a second after the first trigger pull. That means any double pull that was quicker that 10/s would result in only one ball fired. In strings of shots, that would mean that that instead of a constant 10 bps, the marker would shoot erratically a much less than 10 bps unless you could inhumanly pull the trigger at an EXACT 10/s.

What is rediculous and needs closer supervision/banning is the recognition of trigger bounce as queued shots.

[cledford]

The original Shocker turbo mode actually counted switch "bounces" as trigger events and then (I believe) queued those. Every time a switch opens or closes there are several jumps up in down of the voltage, not just one "clean" trigger pull.

It was the counting of these additional "bounces" that got the Shocker in trouble, not the queue I'm guessing.

-Calvin

[raehl]

Hrm... you mean bounces like...

Those of the HES sensor being triggerred by the solenoid?

Anyway, I agree that the other boards need to be fixed as well, and I don't fault AGD for competing on equal ground. I just happen to read here and thus know the technical implimentation of AGD stuff and every other product not so much.

- Chris

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by cledford
The original Shocker turbo mode actually counted switch "bounces" as trigger events and then (I believe) queued those. Every time a switch opens or closes there are several jumps up in down of the voltage, not just one "clean" trigger pull.

It was the counting of these additional "bounces" that got the Shocker in trouble, not the queue I'm guessing.

-Calvin

That's not how the shocker worked.It's software recognized a certain actual ROF as the point to switch to a preset full auto.WAS uses multiple buffered shots but since his opinions are critical in the rules making decisions, he's able to explain his software in a way to sound legit.He is the ultimate used car salesman.

Typical buffering as in 3.2 is simply a way to allow a reasonable ROF cap that can actually be reached.In order to limit the ROF the software limits the time between recognized trigger pulls.It does so in perfectly spaced time incriments,not possible to be reproduce by human fingers.The buffer just allows for a less then perfectly spaced string of pulls to equal the ROF that was actually pulled.

The far simpler method to acheive this and the one thats becoming more and more common is a theretical max BPS equal to the minimal time between trigger pulls thats ultimately possible.WAS for instance scans trigger pulls 1 mil/per second,and Bushys for instance that have a max of 66.6 or the Morlocks uncappable boards etc.They all accomplish the same thing in the end.No lost pulls the were actually pulled.

Jay.

[raehl]

Erm...

Who is making WAS boards that argues that they're legal?

- Chris

[Dayspring]

Jim Drew

And anybody who's using his board- National for one.