Update on NPPL Trigger Bounce Rule

[Cobrachs]

I agree the rule is very gray, but all triggers have some type of return device so the rule must specify how much force can be applied to the trigger by this device. As the rule is currently witten I honestly believe the RT is legal, I believe the term reactive is getting a bad rap, I mean the reactive mode on the old Timmy was no where close to being anything like the RT Pro

[WickedAirSportz]

Yeah, its going to be a tough call. You guys can see what they are getting at. They don't want something where you can just hold the trigger lightly and the return force exceeds the pull force allowing that "sweet spot" (which is illegal).

[Cobrachs]

That is what I am saying, on a normal RT you wont be able to sweet spot it, I think the fact that the return pressure is greater than that of the average spring, and that it is a rod not a spring is irrelevent, but if you can sweet spot it its illegal. My emag wont sweet spot in manual mode, which is the same as an RT Pro. Some people will modify the marker so they can sweet spot and that shoud not be allowed, but a normal Reactive Trigger Pro should not be banned because of the term reactive

[ezrunner]

cobrachs

This post is two part:
Cobrachs: I'm not saying your emag is illegal.

Please look at some other RT valved guns. With a retro valve and an adjustable input nitrogen tank you can dial the return force of the trigger to the point that it sweet spots very very easily.

Let's keep the discussion going without getting bogged down in the religion of one marker system or another.

Mr. Jim Drew: first, thank you for taking the time to become embroiled in this thread. I'm sure that you could be working on your newest board or upgrade.

To Jim:
The rates of fire we see on the field rarely top 6 - 10 bps. So when I do see someone shooting abnormally fast I do tend to check their marker if I am reffing. If I'm playing I smile cause they're wasting paint

Do you "walk" your trigger or just vibrate your wrist?

On another note, the mass that is moved per shot in each marker does affect how that marker (electro) is sweet spotted. If a player is using the sweet spot in his marker even though the pull is long, is that a problem?

Once you learn a marker system you can hold it to get the response you want even if the trigger has some slop on either end. That slop would make it more difficult for someone not attuned to that marker to find the "sweet spot".

Any ideas on how we work with or around that?

We all know that there will soon be some other way to get high ROF. It is just a matter of time.

-rob

[Cobrachs]

But thats what this thread started about, AGD guns and trigger bounce. Yes you can make a RT bounce like mad, but we should not ban them all because its possible, we need new rules for testing them. I can bounce my Timmy with Equalier like crazy too, but is that Jim Drews fault, no I have the option of adjusting my marker to my liking. My point with my emag was that not all guns associated with the term REACTIVE are bouncing, and by association illegal. Mr Drew stated the rule I mentioned was put in place in part of guns which have a rod or other device adding return pressure, and as far as I know the only ones are the Mags and RT Tippman. Well Im not really concened with the Tippman.

I also asked some other questions related to the topic but not specific to any gun and similar to the questions you asked but didnt really get any clarification

[WickedAirSportz]

I walk the trigger, even when firing single shots I alternate fingers... just a habit I guess.

Some are confused here. There are two different subjects being mixed together, and they need to be separated.

1. Bouncing
2. Reactive trigger

Nothing has been discussed yet by me about bouncing mag triggers. A mechanical trigger is difficult to bounce compared to an electronic trigger.

What I have been talking about is the rule concerning something pushing the trigger forward (other than a spring, magnet,etc.) Something with considerable force that moves your finger forward when you relax it (not actually releasing it).

[Dayspring]

But Mr. Drew, that's how a mag works. The trigger rod pushes the trigger forward. RT or not.

The RT pushes the trigger back to complete lock of the sear. THAT'S the firing cycle. A bouncing RT does not. See the difference?

[WickedAirSportz]

Yes, I understand that. The NPPL will need to understand that and address the issue.

As I stated before, "reactive" is equated to what the Tippman auto-response trigger does.

I guess the term "reactive" is something that scares everyone. In the mag sense of the word, it means just resetting the trigger position (just like a spider or any other type of marker). Reactive for electros usually means a shot on every pull and release.

[Duke Henry]

Does anyone else find it funny that the NPPL rules on "reactivity" are based on a non-"reactive" trigger? I mean, the Tippmann RT (which I own, and can easily get to go full auto and agree it should be illegal) is not called a "reactive" trigger. It is a "response" trigger.

The Mag RT is a "reactive" trigger.

So, by saying that the "reactive" issue is in reference to the Tippmann RT just seems a bit wacky to me.

If anything, it should be the "response" issue.

[Yamz]

since we all pretty much agree that trigger bounce, reactive triggers, and responce triggers are all diffrent when is NPPL going to see this and clear up this issue is now my question of the day

Side note who cares about the responce trigger on a tippman it still cant reach the extream rate of fire that counld be looked at as a safty issue

[Dubstar112]

If its one shot for one pull, wouldnt a short stroke be illegal? Cause its technically not a full release, and it has a probability to shoot a ball...

Reactiveness... VS Responsiveness... You said the tippy trigger has autoresponse..? Care to explain? Im guessing that was a typo..

As I stated before, "reactive" is equated to what the Tippman auto-response trigger does.

Definatley NPPL needs to clear this up in some way. Somehow I doubt they will, especially seeing that it takes them this long to bring the issue up.. (from my understanding..)