An interesting thought of.... ummmm, well just read

[Brophog]

Its as simple as this folks.

Any one of you that can't stand to have a marker under about 15 bps (easy math) is just kidding yourselves.

A paintball traveling at 300 fps:

At 300 feet, those balls are only 20 feet apart.
At 100 geet, those balls are only 6 2/3 feet apart.
At 50 feet, those balls are only 3 1/3 feet apart.

Most paintball eliminations are at about 50 feet. I know, some are longer, but this is easy math again.
Those balls are 3 1/3 feet apart. That's 40 inches from each other and they are each traveling at 300 fps. They are (1/15) .067 seconds apart. Each of those balls will travel that 50 feet in .167 seconds (50/300).

I don't care how fast you are, your not running through that. Best case scenario is your running directly perpendicular to that stream. Most of the time that is not the case, making those times even shorter.

Say your the fastest athlete in the world and you run a 4.0 forty yd dash. (I know, your fast!) That's 120 feet in 4 secs. that's 30 feet a sec. Your the fastest man in the world and your 1/10 the speed of a paintball!

So to run through that stream, you need to go the length of your shoulders, approximately to clear the path. Lets say 2 feet. Its going to be longer, because your knees and arms are sticking out, your head is down, you have to clear your pack... but 2 feet will do here.

Ok. You travel 30 feet a sec (at a dead sprint mind you). You need to go 2 feet. That will take you 1/15 of a second, or .067 sec. (Funny how this all works out. Almost like its planned!) So, if you time it absolutely perfectly and cross the stream absolutely perpendicular, you can get through that stream by a cat whisker.

Now, tell me exactly why you need more than 15 bps. No one here is saying to take away semis or electros. We're saying that enough is enough. Don't buy into the hype that you need more than that to compete.

[bryceeden]

Originally posted by Brophog
Thanks for the reply.

So would you be against an imposed cap of 14 bps. The game would be unchanged, yet it would provide an end to several of these arguments.

I would put it more around 17 for every thing exept the pro level and NXL, but yes I would suport it.

[Miltonyz]

Any one of you that can't stand to have a marker under about 15 bps (easy math) is just kidding yourselves

It's not that I can't stand a gun that slow. I've already admitted to having slow fingers.
It's that I can't stand that a relative few are trying to change the rules for all of us for what I see to be no legitimate reason. What do we do about guns that can currently shoot above 15? We are talking a complex process for what amounts to feel good legislation.

[Brophog]

You just not looking forward enough. Remember, this thread was started by looking in the past.

If you were a member of the past and wanted your game to remain the same (as most of you want it to), then you would make legislation to keep it that way.

We, in the past, didn't respect the idea of change enough to do what should have been done to keep the sport more movement, less control based. Someone always said, Dont worry, you can't shoot that fast. Why bother. These are the same arguments we are hearing now.

I would be surprised if 20 bps holds up as a relative top end speed for long. We will run into a problem of bolt/ball size ratios before too long, but someone will get past that.

The number one selling point right now is speed. The other myths have basically been busted, so speed is the one measurable quantity that manufacturers can market. Until speed stops selling, people will continue to promote it. The excuses of people not shooting fast enough and loaders not feeding fast enough are bunk people. Electronics are paving the way to the future, and electronics are getting around these obstacles. Don't be as naive and careless as we were in the past on this issue. Realize that these excuses don't hold water.

[bryceeden]

Originally posted by Brophog
Its as simple as this folks.

Any one of you that can't stand to have a marker under about 15 bps (easy math) is just kidding yourselves.

A paintball traveling at 300 fps:

At 300 feet, those balls are only 20 feet apart.
At 100 geet, those balls are only 6 2/3 feet apart.
At 50 feet, those balls are only 3 1/3 feet apart.

Most paintball eliminations are at about 50 feet. I know, some are longer, but this is easy math again.
Those balls are 3 1/3 feet apart. That's 40 inches from each other and they are each traveling at 300 fps. They are (1/15) .067 seconds apart. Each of those balls will travel that 50 feet in .167 seconds (50/300).

I don't care how fast you are, your not running through that. Best case scenario is your running directly perpendicular to that stream. Most of the time that is not the case, making those times even shorter.

Say your the fastest athlete in the world and you run a 4.0 forty yd dash. (I know, your fast!) That's 120 feet in 4 secs. that's 30 feet a sec. Your the fastest man in the world and your 1/10 the speed of a paintball!

So to run through that stream, you need to go the length of your shoulders, approximately to clear the path. Lets say 2 feet. Its going to be longer, because your knees and arms are sticking out, your head is down, you have to clear your pack... but 2 feet will do here.

Ok. You travel 30 feet a sec (at a dead sprint mind you). You need to go 2 feet. That will take you 1/15 of a second, or .067 sec. (Funny how this all works out. Almost like its planned!) So, if you time it absolutely perfectly and cross the stream absolutely perpendicular, you can get through that stream by a cat whisker.

Now, tell me exactly why you need more than 15 bps. No one here is saying to take away semis or electros. We're saying that enough is enough. Don't buy into the hype that you need more than that to compete.

You didn't take deceleration into your math, those ball don't get alot closer than the origanal 20'. The ball isn't going 300fps anymore at the 50' mark, I would say that the balls are ABOUT 12-15' apart at that 50', so while difficult to run through it is doable, and more often than not the paint that does hit you bounces off the baggy clothing that seems to be the other topic of this thread. I agree that if the baggy clothing went away the ROF could go down, but the two aren't going to change, how ever I would be the first to sign up for a tourney where only true semi was aloud(no trigger bounce) I actually do know people that can do 17+ bps on a ULT mag.

[Brophog]

I didn't take a lot into account. Vectors, deceleration, barrel accuracy, ball turbulence, windage, field conditions.... It wasn't meant for a science paper, it was meant to illustrate a very clear point that there is an upper threshold of effective bps.

They'll be closer than 12-15 feet apart. At 50 feet, you've still got some force to deal with as the ball will still be in a parallel plane with respect to the earth.

Thanks for noticing, but that's not the point.

[Beemer]

Safty First

If ya read the WHOLE thread you will under stand this.
Before I ever post in a thread I read the whole thing. Every POST and the whole post.

Repeat after me SAFTY. I played 1 tourny with just gogs and that was the first and last time I did That.It was very STUPID. Know how long that lasted 1/2 a season. They ruled you had to have a mask. Why for your SAFTY.

I played tourny ball for nine years so I have seen the changes.

When I started playing we were shooting 325fps and using uvex gogs. Why arent we still shooting 325???????? we LEARNED.

Repeat after me XSTREAM. I love speed look at my sig. I will gear up anyday anywhere against anybody. 300fps you got it, 30 bps you got it, lets throw in the bonus ball to thats fun right. Ill take it and dish it out if you win fine I aint a sore sport. But If I play that xstream my gear will be xstream to. you can use 3/32 lexon, Im using 1/8 plexiglass full face custom made xtream ware all the way around. Why, for my SAFETY.

The problem is this is all flowing to the rec field.
Kids dont have a clue on how to be safe. Whos fault, problem is that. Go read the gog threads again, my God theres players out there using cracked lenses.

The standards and guide lines that were set arent being used or followed. ANSI,ASTM mean nothing I have the sheets on gogs and guns, cost me 70$. PM me if ya wanna see them
Half these guns wouldnt pass an ADT[accidental discharge test]Im gonna have to start wearing my gogs all the time.

The spiral effect is on self distruct mode.

Meph Tyger and some others are right on. The rest need to be more informed. I may not be the most informed but I aint the least eather. In fact the more informed I get the sicker I get.

Oh ya all I could find is ONE count em ONE insurence co. that will cover paintball.
American PaintBall Ins. Co.
If you find another let me know.

Let me know when youre ready to play XSTREAM, Im in

Peace Out
Beemer

[Tyger]

Beemer : Show me the most informed person on this topic and I'll probabyl show you someone who doesnt play, but works for a science lab.

I think a lot of the problem is that paintball playrs now never HAD to suffer through a lot of the garbage we did back in the day. I cringe to think what 30 PBS looks like on UVEX goggles. Once you've been there, once you've seen what can happen, you tend to shy away from it.

I see it again. I remember the arguments andthe fights in the 90's about "No masks". The tournament folk wanted to stay without masks for multiple reasons. Insurance companies saw the risks, and said "no." Tey complained, but they put the masks back onto thier goggles.

Come to think of it, there's the sollution. INSURANCE COMPANIES. If they were to step in and say "We cap semi-auto guns to 12 BPS or you don't get insurance.", the players would whine about it to no end. BUT they would all step into form, and set the guns down to 12 BPS, and play anyway.

I wonder if we can have a very intense meeting with the insurance folks on this matter.

-Tyger

[Meph]

Originally posted by Miltonyz

It's that I can't stand that a relative few are trying to change the rules for all of us for what I see to be no legitimate reason. What do we do about guns that can currently shoot above 15? We are talking a complex process for what amounts to feel good legislation.

No legit reason? Would you consider that after injuries keep coming, and more severe to even include death. Then be it either a blanket lawsuit or just flat out after a lot of bad liberal media press that Paintball as a whole will have a larger problem. You simply can not see it beyond "Well I never heard of people getting hurt, so who cares?" So obviously of course since YOU never heard of it.... it's never happened! Guess goggles coming disloged from the frame after 8 consecutive paintballs smacking into it never happened either back in 2001. Guess last year at a smaller local event somebody trying to "be like Ollie" doing his superman dive didn't smack his head on the floor, making the goggles bump up and almost off his head completely leaving him open for that split moment to serious injury. And obviously since these never happened those 2 people, who are obviously the ONLY 2 who EVER got injured, isn't enough to warrant any time or real regulation.

Well guess what, with this back-turning mentallity eventually it'll be ignored and forgot about long enough to we will no longer be governing ourselves. And by then it will be too late to backpeddle and attempt to "Oh well I can settle with being capped at 14/15bps max" it'll be too late.

[fallout11]

Paintball is about to be BANNED in New York, because it is considered "too dangerous".
Did you know that?

Do you think this brass ballin' attitude, extreme playing, and heavy emphasis on how many times I can overshoot somebody with my 20+ BPS "mad skilz" is helping the image of paintball any?

Do you think wanna' be players (yes, newbies) would pay money to come out to a field to be blasted 5-10 times in rapid fire? If they do, think they'll be back?
This "sport" (and I use that term loosely) has reached a plateau, thanks largely to the kind of ignorant, don't worry about it attitudes I see displayed from some right here.

Sure, 7 million people played paintball in 2002.
But how many came back to play a second time?
Think anyone but the hard core fools will be back if all guns shot 30 BPS?

I've been playing for 17 years. Yes, that's right, before some of you were even a twinkle in your father's eye, and let me tell you straight: Paintball is on the road to destruction.
It's time to step in, and make some rules.

[fallout11]

And regarding serious injuries:

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

[bryceeden]

Beemer, Boston Insurance will cover paintball, I can think of a few more, but the reason there are so few is literally about image not about safty. I personallt think that the BPS is fine, but what should be, and in many cases is being, done is limit the velocity to 280FPS not 300FPS. That would do more, and (while still very complained about) be more accepted. I think that talking to the insurance companys hold 99% of the power in this topic, so if you really want a reasonalbe(17bps) cap you need to start a petition for it, and if you can get a few hundred signitures then send it to ALL insurence companies that cover paintball, this(if you had enough signatures) would put a cap on it.

And paintball is NOT on the road to destruction, their are a few places like New York who don't have the real stats(Paintball is considerably safer than Bowling) but on the national level it is going into the main stream, and I know of several City sponsored and run tourneys comming up soon, so I personally wouldn't wory about any path to destruction.

[Beemer]

insurance

Ok check out Boston. Is that a broker? See if it doesnt lead back to APL. American Paintball League Ins.[Bob Mcguire]

[GT]

Re: Safty First

Originally posted by Beemer

The problem is this is all flowing to the rec field.
Kids dont have a clue on how to be safe.

Great post. IF no one reads any of this post except the title and this quote you will understand what we, limt bps dudes, are talking about.

Like I said its just a matter of time......

[fallout11]

I feel a poll coming on.....