Hey Ya'll we need to help This guy out

[abarnhar]

Originally posted by Emily
It's a very bad idea to be sending them emails after emails over this.

But systematic spam is such a cool concept...

[deathstalker]

Originally posted by abarnhar
But systematic spam is such a cool concept...

It's also incredibly immature, ESPECIALLY since Paintball Gateway didn't charge overdraft fees, the bank did. That's like compaining to a car dealership when you get a flat tire and have to pay for a replacement.

[radcast2]

Not the banks responsiblilty

I saw a few threads about how this is the banks responsibility.
If it was thier mistake yes it would be, And we wouldnt be here.
THe problem is that it is the merchants responsiblity to remove any reservation of funds, after the purchase price was put in, which They didnt do, it was done 2 days after the sale by the bank, and after a long phone call with PaintballGateway. See what they did is charged me 2 times for the same product with 2 different purchase amounts and 2 different receipt #'s. That is why the bank allowed the sale to go through. The proper way to run this sale was to run it asking for the $391.17, once approved they then should have run it for $391.17 (price of gun and Shipping), then since it was FREE 2 day air shipping they should have refunded the card $31.xx (the shipping cost). They didnt do this. They reserved the $391.17 then charged the $359.95, the bank see's 2 things here, 1 a purchase, and the 2nd a reservation for funds. If they would have done it correctly then after the gun purchase checks went through the account would have had a +$39.76. So I/we are not barking up the wrong tree. I appreciate everyones efforts but to be honest 1 email per person is fine.

[radcast2]

Originally posted by deathstalker
Paintball Gateway didn't charge overdraft fees, the bank did.

No they didnt charge the overdraft fee's but there actions caused the overdraft fee's. As for the going to car dealer comment well let me put it this way for you. If you push me down the stairs, I break a leg well the stairs are what broke the leg, but your pushed caused the problem so your liable, not the stairs.

[MantisMag]

it does not matter that it's their fault the overdraft charge occured. if they've already cleared up the error with the bank then they've taken care of thier responsibility. it's the bank that you have to talk to now.

[radcast2]

I do see what your saying, but in my Line of business I would have at the bare minimum offered to work something out either credit half of the overdraft fee's and asked the bank to credit the other half since both parties could be held liable, since it was paintballgateways mistake that actually caused the account to overdraft. Even a respone like.... well we wont credit you the card or send you a check but we'll give you $200 in store credit would have been fine, even though I dont need anything..(wait this is paintball we always need something)The bank has stepped up and has credited us some of the overdraft fee's. I'm sorry I dont feel a response like.. I am not doing anything for you, your just gonna have to eat that money(this is what Joe told us),is proper business.
All PaintballGateway had to do was admit there error and be kind to us and not say well we didnt make a mistake and we dont think you had enough money in the account in the first place, Which the bank has already proven to them that there was. IMO They didnt fix the error, heck at first they didnt even admit to running it 2 times, it took the bank explaining what they had done for them to realize it was there mistake. This can be disputed till the end of time, but you know a report to the BBB, about my misfortune and threads that explain poor business dealing help people to find good places to deal with. And I am sure thier are hundreds/thousands that Love PaintballGateway, and that is fine this is just my bad experience with them.

[Emily]

Re: Not the banks responsiblilty

Originally posted by radcast2
They reserved the $391.17 then charged the $359.95, the bank see's 2 things here, 1 a purchase, and the 2nd a reservation for funds.

I see probs with this statement.

If the company ONLY reserved the funds and it did not get posted then there should not be any overdraft fees.

for example.... you go the the gas station, you put your card in to get gas. the station checks to see if you have funds in your account, all that is put on reserve is $1. the full amount of the gas is not charged to your account until the transaction goes thru and is posted to your account. I had a very simular thing happen to me. My card was ran thru to see if i had like $199 available on my card. This took down my available amount in my account. After a few days, the $199 was released. The money never left my account due to the fact that the amount was never posted.

lets say you have $800 in your account. The company put on reserve $391.17. Your actual balance is still $800 but your available balance is $408.83. Now you can still spend all of the $800 because that 391.17 hasn't posted. So you still have 408.83 available, the company charges you $359.59, so you actual balance is still 800 but the available blance is down to 49.24. Once all the transaction have went thru then the account could be overdrawn if you spent more than $1000.


So if all the company did was reserve 391.17 and the 359.59 was posted to your account then you shouldn't have been overdrawn unless you spent more than you had in the account even after the 359.59 was taken out.

I've had several discussion with my bank over this type of method. I see the good side to it and the bad side of it. Now credit cards do the same. Walmart will reserve the amount of your purchases, online purchases, and won't actually charge your card until the items ship. They also release the reserved amount before they charge the account.

Now you're saying that you incurred overdraft fees from the company's mistake of a reserve and then a purchase. I don't see how you could have unless you spent more than you had in the account without the 319.17 not being posted to your account.

Edited for spelling. I hope I got them all. I tend to think faster than I type.

[deathstalker]

radcast2, what's your business? If you credit things you don't charge, I gots me some shoppin' to do!

Great explanation, Emily. I didn't even think of it that way.

[radcast2]

Re: Re: Not the banks responsiblilty

Originally posted by Emily
lets say you have $800 in your account. The company put on reserve $391.17. Your actual balance is still $800 but your available balance is $408.83. Now you can still spend all of the $800 because that 391.17 hasn't posted. So you still have 408.83 available, the company charges you $359.59, so you actual balance is still 800 but the available blance is down to 49.24. Once all the transaction have went thru then the account could be overdrawn if you spent more than $1000.

Your statments are correct, except no you cant spend all that $800 becuase your bank only goes by available balances not posted.....but 1st you must keep in mind they didnt clear the reservation, it doesnt automatically clear it must be told to clear, which they didnt do...as for your example you didnt finish, so if I may just elaborate(spelling??) on your example...
While the reservation is there the bank gives you an available balance, and a posted balance. While the money is held in the reservation it is withdrawn from what the BANK is seeing as the available amount of currency, not the posted, banks dont go by what is posted when clearing purchases it goes by availability of funds. See in your example the bank saw, after reservation, $408.83, then 20 minutes later a purchase NOT another reservation was applied to the account for the $359.95, which gives the account an available funds of $48.88,(this is where they should have removed the reservation, but didnt) now there are checks/other card purchases coming in, say 10 of them totaling $150.00 that will give the bank an available balance of -$101.12 now you take that and say 7 purchases that have asked for clearence but they are asking for clearance after the available balance has hit $0.00, they are now on the overdraft, each check that is on the overdraft now gets charged $30.00 which gives you a total of $210.00 in just overdraft fee's, total available balance is now -$311.12. If the reservation was removed when the purchase was made then that gives the the Banks available balance of $258.xx. See I wouldnt have any problem if they removed the reservation after they made the actual purchase, which they didnt do. If the removal of the reservation was requested it then would have been put back onto the available balance but not the posted, so it would have been in the bank just not posted to the account so it wouldnt have been there for my use, but would have been there for the bank.

[Emily]

Re: Re: Re: Not the banks responsiblilty

Originally posted by radcast2
Your statments are correct, except no you cant spend all that $800 becuase your bank only goes by available balances not posted.....but 1st you must keep in mind they didnt clear the reservation, it doesnt automatically clear it must be told to clear, which they didnt do...as for your example you didnt finish, so if I may just elaborate(spelling??) on your example...
While the reservation is there the bank gives you an available balance, and a posted balance. While the money is held in the reservation it is withdrawn from what the BANK is seeing as the available amount of currency, not the posted, banks dont go by what is posted when clearing purchases it goes by availability of funds. See in your example the bank saw, after reservation, $408.83, then 20 minutes later a purchase NOT another reservation was applied to the account for the $359.95, which gives the account an available funds of $48.88,(this is where they should have removed the reservation, but didnt) now there are checks/other card purchases coming in, say 10 of them totaling $150.00 that will give the bank an available balance of -$101.12 now you take that and say 7 purchases that have asked for clearence but they are asking for clearance after the available balance has hit $0.00, they are now on the overdraft, each check that is on the overdraft now gets charged $30.00 which gives you a total of $210.00 in just overdraft fee's, total available balance is now -$311.12. If the reservation was removed when the purchase was made then that gives the the Banks available balance of $258.xx. See I wouldnt have any problem if they removed the reservation after they made the actual purchase, which they didnt do. If the removal of the reservation was requested it then would have been put back onto the available balance but not the posted, so it would have been in the bank just not posted to the account so it wouldnt have been there for my use, but would have been there for the bank.

No, when the bank clears funds it looks at actual balance, not available, available is only for you so you dont over spend. I know this for a fact, because of the 199 amout that was on reserve in my account. I spoke to the bank about it becsue i had already wrote checks before i knew that the company was going to see if i had funds available. The bank told me that any transaction that came through would go thru the actual balance, not the available balance. And yes each electronic transaction has to be told to be "posted", it dosen't do it automatically.

[radcast2]

Originally posted by deathstalker
If you credit things you don't charge, I gots me some shoppin' to do!

Not sure I understand what you mean...If my company makes a mistake that caused you problems I would work with you to resolve the problem, not turn you away. Its called customer service and proper business etiquette. Yes she had a great explanation just hope my rebutale helps understand the situation better.

[radcast2]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Not the banks responsiblilty

Originally posted by Emily


No, when the bank clears funds it looks at actual balance, not available, available is only for you so you dont over spend. I know this for a fact, because of the 199 amout that was on reserve in my account. I spoke to the bank about it becsue i had already wrote checks before i knew that the company was going to see if i had funds available. The bank told me that any transaction that came through would go thru the actual balance, not the available balance. And yes each electronic transaction has to be told to be "posted", it dosen't do it automatically.

The available balance is items that are within the bank asking for clearance, once they clear then they are removed from the posted. Not sure what bank you have but I can honestly say the mislead you, since no banks software operates off of the posted balance. The main reason I stand by this is becuase, the bank proved to them and us that there was enough money in the account after all transactions...where final if the reservation was removed...the numbers we used in the examples are VERY close to the real amounts (whenI saw yousay $800 kinda got me scared) See I personally feel that both could be held liable...the bank should have questioned the 2 transactions from one company within such short time difference...the company should have made sure they removed the reservation..when it was brought to the attention of the bank they immediately went to work to figure what happened...when PaintballGateway was told about this they dismissed it. Proper business procedures should have been in place for them..I guess this is what happens when the owner goes on vaction. Thanks for seeing that all transaction have to be told what to do....we keep it up and I might get you on our side. People may not feel that PaintballGateway should pay anything back but after all this you have to see that thier mistake caused a problem...they should as a business be willing to work with us not turn us away.....bad customer service goes a long way...
But like another person told me in an email...if they dont pay anything look at it this way the people around here and other places have decided not to make there purchases from them. That might have cost them more than the $210.

edited for spelling

[Emily]

I do agree that paintballgateway is the casue of this but they are not going to pay for your overdraft fees.

My bank did not mislead me and i have no other way to convince you. The bank goes my actual balance not available. The bank has no way of knowing if you spent that money or not. Maybe this will help (just thought of it), My paycheck is direct deposit. It is put into my availabe balance every wednesday night at midnight but is not posted to my account until thrusday night. I am available to use that money even tho it is not posted to my account BUT if a transaction is posted to my account on wednesday night, after midnight, then the transaction is withdrawn from my acutal balance, not my available balance, even tho my available balance does decrease. The bank can only go by actual balance. another example, I also deposit 185 every friday morning into my accout, if i wrote a check for more than was in my actual account, even tho the deposit is showing in my available balance and the person that the check was written to banked at the same bank then i could be overdrawn since the 185 has not posted yet. At my bank if 2 ppl have accounts there then the transaction is posted right away since they can see what the acutal balance is and my bank is a large bank, it's not just in a small area. another example, i had used my card several times one day, i needed to withdrawl 200 for an appointment, i had forgotten that i had used the card and didn't have the 200 in my actual balance. I ended up being overdrawn due all the transcation being posted the same night. If they were going by the available balance then they would have not given me the 200 due to it not being in the available balance. As a side note, i only write about 5 checks a month so i use my card a lot more than that.

[radcast2]

Originally posted by Emily
I do agree that paintballgateway is the casue of this

That is all we ever wanted.

[Emily]

Originally posted by radcast2
That is all we ever wanted.

Just becasue i agree that they are wrong for not releasing the funds it doesn't change the fact that even tho they had the funds on reserve it should have not casued you to have overdraft fees. The transaction was on reserve not subtracted from your actual balance. When you use a card, the bank gurantees that you have that amount in your account and gurantees that it will be paid but the bank does it gurantee that you will still have that money in the account when the transaction is posted, ie the bank pays the amount and you incure overdraft fees if you've overspent before that transaction was posted.

Transaction are posted as they come in, not when they were incurred.