AGD Defunct???

[Butterfingers]

As much as I would like to see that happen. It means less money for everybody.

Most of the big hitters in the industry would never go for it.

[Brophog]

Too True.

But it will be at THEIR loss. Not all of them, of course. You'll certainly see fewer and fewer people in this industry if things don't begin to change though.

[AGD]

Ask yourself these two questions (like I did).

1. Can the Emag or Xmag as it is today gain market share against Timmys, Shockers and DM4's? yes/no

2. Can AGD's mechanical guns gain market share against Tippmans products in the rec market? yes/no

Now remember, we are not changing the name of AGD, we are not dropping our valve system and you still have a Hyperframe option. If the industry issues come under control we will get going on another e-gun. I don't expect you to wait but then again you never did anyway. All of our customers own other guns.

Even though you see very few of our e-guns in tourney play, everyone is saying we are foolish to not produce it. Does that really make sense?

AGD

[melch]

my 2 cents

Tom you have been in the bussines for how many years now and your products have been praised by those who have owned one or by those who have been owned by one and mocked by players who are yet to have either so let your product do the talking as they have done for years. If you need to do away with electros then do so im sick of batteries anyway but this new step you are taking with only having the rtp, tac one, and warp feed, may not be a step in dirrection do what you do best. However the ule custome i think is just what AGD needed it is a pro level gun for a great price it looks great it shoots incredibly fast and consistant and its light.
I have been hearing about the down fall of ADG for a long time but its the same in no matter what sport " THE BEST WILL PLAY " wether its football baseball or paintball all you can do is make the best product possible and let your products do the speaking for you. Wether its noobs novice or pros(imo anyway) all they want is a reiliable gun that rips is accurate and looks good it seems like you have a site of people here that think your products fits that criteria.

GOOD LUCK & GOD BLESS
Taylor Melcher
"melch"

[Brophog]

To answer that:

1) No
2) No

I think that's pretty much agreed on. I think you only need to look at some of the above posts to see that in order to sell a product, and effectively market that product, you need a demographic for that product.

You don't sell pants with sparklies on them to 35 year olds. You don't sell baby dolls to 20 year olds. You don't sell corvettes to people on welfare.

The reason the answer is no to both questions is that there are not enough markets in paintball for the number of markers we have. Some of that is the way the game is played, and some of that is individual manufacturers being able to find their appropriate "niche" and volume level to do what they want to do.

[Butterfingers]

Sucks being right in the middle of things dosent it...

Too expensive for the beginer... Not hyped enough to be high end...

All we have left are loyal customers and people who actually took time to research a product in depth. Unfortunately they are like the great plains buffalo... few and far between.

I think tom is trying to say that Reality bites...

The reality theory states that things are the way they are and if we don't look at things the way they are things tend to work against you.

Unfortunately AGD dosent have the marketing might or the budget to make all our dreams reality.

[tg ur 1t]

this is why I ask the question...
do you want me to follow the lines to SP?
I think that the E marker has it's place, but without the company and customer marketing (word of mouth, local presence) the marker won't be seen as a contender. If a pro sponsered team winning in the big leagues were running all E-mags... you may see the sales go up. As well as things like the Karta bodies on the E-mag would bring in the bling crowd.
I don't own any other marker than MAGS. I haven't used a cocker or angel. I don't even want to try one. I like the look and performance of my E-mag.
I didn't trust the hyperframe, and still don't to an extent. I had RobAGD put mine together for me and have seen too many other fail because the electronics aren't strong enough to really fire the MINI.
I guess that Tom needs to ask himself the question...
Do I go after the top end market or do I go after the Rec-ball market?
It doesn't seem as though he can afford to do both.

And TOM
"I don't expect you to wait but then again you never did anyway."
I am sorry that you are hurt about some owning other types of markers, but find me a family that hasn't tried a different brand of some product. You mean you have never had Coca-Cola or Pepsi. Maybe some other soda.

[Tunaman]

Originally posted by AGD
There are a lot of people (not on this forum) who think a Mag is an old stainless gun. No matter what we do they will always believe that. If they hear "Tac-one" they have to find out what it is before they diss it. Make sense?

I say a lot of things on this forum. After all it's where I come to test the pulse of the market. On occasion I try to incite a debate by taking a stab at something. Remember the Crown Point Barrel thread? Watching the ensuing argument helps me get a handle on how you feel. One of the big things is the proportion of looks to technology, I still don't have a reasonable assesment of that.

AGD

Well HERE is the my latest "old stainless gun". If I have to sell my house, cars, boat, and /or soul and body on the street I will be here to help. AGD is not going anywhere but uphill if I have anything at all to say about it. I will put this marker against ANY other marker on the planet and WILL come out in front everytime. How can that be? Because YOU TK...have designed and engineered it to be the best...and it certainly is. Long live AGD! May the Mag piss on everything else...like it has always done. Someone please take this pic and post it on all the other forums you can find. Maybe someone out there is looking for an "old stainless mag". Oh...and if your name is Trevin Geer, "This Mag's for you Bud!" :o

[Brophog]

If a pro sponsered team winning in the big leagues were running all E-mags... you may see the sales go up.

That takes a lot of money to sponsor a top pro team to do that. Like I said before, teams shoot what people pay them to shoot. The fees to get a top pro team to shoot your marker are going up VERY fast.

I don't think AGD has a quarter million dollars lying around to make this happen.

[tg ur 1t]

Originally posted by tg ur 1t
If a pro sponsered team winning in the big leagues were running all E-mags... you may see the sales go up.
I guess that Tom needs to ask himself the question...
Do I go after the top end market or do I go after the Rec-ball market?
It doesn't seem as though he can afford to do both.

not to quote myself but...


I am sure it does cost. I can't afford to sponser a team.

and we know the minions will follow the current winning team.

[momags!]

The Bible Code predicted the end of AGD in the year 2005.

[Gadget]

Originally posted by AGD
All of our customers own other guns.

Not this one :)

I bought this one in 1993:



...and this one in 2003:



Plus a shed load of parts, accessories and upgrades. They're the only markers I've owned in the last decade. If I've waited 10 years between markers before, another couple waiting for the next one won't hurt :)

[shartley]

Originally posted by painball
A step in the right direction. :) The industry is really collapsing right now.

Originally posted by AGD
Ask yourself these two questions (like I did).

1. Can the Emag or Xmag as it is today gain market share against Timmys, Shockers and DM4's? yes/no

2. Can AGD's mechanical guns gain market share against Tippmans products in the rec market? yes/no

Now remember, we are not changing the name of AGD, we are not dropping our valve system and you still have a Hyperframe option. If the industry issues come under control we will get going on another e-gun. I don't expect you to wait but then again you never did anyway. All of our customers own other guns.

Even though you see very few of our e-guns in tourney play, everyone is saying we are foolish to not produce it. Does that really make sense?

AGD

Originally posted by Brophog
To answer that:

1) No
2) No

I think that's pretty much agreed on. I think you only need to look at some of the above posts to see that in order to sell a product, and effectively market that product, you need a demographic for that product.

You don't sell pants with sparklies on them to 35 year olds. You don't sell baby dolls to 20 year olds. You don't sell corvettes to people on welfare.

The reason the answer is no to both questions is that there are not enough markets in paintball for the number of markers we have. Some of that is the way the game is played, and some of that is individual manufacturers being able to find their appropriate "niche" and volume level to do what they want to do.

Originally posted by Butterfingers
Sucks being right in the middle of things dosent it...

Too expensive for the beginer... Not hyped enough to be high end...

All we have left are loyal customers and people who actually took time to research a product in depth. Unfortunately they are like the great plains buffalo... few and far between.

I think tom is trying to say that Reality bites...

The reality theory states that things are the way they are and if we don't look at things the way they are things tend to work against you.

Unfortunately AGD dosent have the marketing might or the budget to make all our dreams reality.

BINGO! And if trying to provide every voice with exactly what they want gets AGD nowhere and they DO have to close up shop, how does that help anyone? However, by doing what AGD thinks it needs to so they can remain a viable player in the industry and provide players with a quality products (even if not what was originally offered), everyone wins.

Originally posted by Tunaman
Well HERE is the my latest "old stainless gun". If I have to sell my house, cars, boat, and /or soul and body on the street I will be here to help. AGD is not going anywhere but uphill if I have anything at all to say about it. I will put this marker against ANY other marker on the planet and WILL come out in front everytime. How can that be? Because YOU TK...have designed and engineered it to be the best...and it certainly is. Long live AGD! May the Mag piss on everything else...like it has always done. Someone please take this pic and post it on all the other forums you can find. Maybe someone out there is looking for an "old stainless mag". Oh...and if your name is Trevin Geer, "This Mag's for you Bud!" :o

[EZbunker]

'forced to go elsewhere?

I disagree. Not that I'm playing much anymore, but I've had the same A.I.R. valve 'mag for ten years+, still using that (no RT, no electro - had both) and I feel absolutely no need to get anything else.

I'm definately not in the 'one shot-one kill, why do you guys shoot so much paint? school' (more like, if you need it, one case one kill) but the crutch provided to players by electro markers and HRF guns (High rate of fire) has dumbed skill down so far these days that its just plain embarassing to watch people playing these days.

Forget the constitutional ban on alternative marriages, I want a consitutional ban on allowing anyone to play anything other than pump woods ball until they have at least 10,000 hours in on the field. Then maybe they'll have some playing skills.....

Originally posted by Steelrat
What Im worried about is that, during the period AGD is not making an electro, former AGD owners will be forced to look elsewhere for new guns.

[Gadget]

Totally agree with you EZbunker - I think Steelrat's comment should be altered to read:

What Im worried about is that, during the period AGD is not making an electro, compulsive gun whores will be forced to look elsewhere for new guns.