A nice, intelligent, mature convo about SP

**Digits** · 04-03-2004, 11:17 PM

very true.. Alot of the bigger companies reside out of country so smart parts can't touch with them.. They have only effected AKA and ICD.. AGD they merely effected.. E/Xmags are still availible threw Europe though so it's not a huge deal..

So we'll look at it this way.. With AKA and ICD gone lets see who's left..

Mac Dev - Out of country, can't really touch them
WDP - Out of country
AGD E - out of country
Smart Parts - I don't think they'd sue themselves..
Dye - I think they made a deal with sp (correct me if i'm wrong)
WGP - Who knows what's going on here..
Timmies - I don't know this one either.. It doesn't look like there stopping any time soon.

So in reality smart parts isn't effecting the rest of PB that much.. They've only really stopped 1 company and slowed down two others. Blah lost my train of thought.. Good night

**Mag Master 04** · 04-03-2004, 11:19 PM

smart parts has made a good move on their behalf...they cornered the market and now they will soon reep the benefits for the time being. but what they did (as smart as it is on their end currently) will hurt the sport in the long run. they just caused a major uproar and it wont be silenced. it was totally unnecissary(spelling?) and they will continue to get ripped on because of it. the advancement of the sport was moving along just fine and it was now put to an end because someone had to get a little greedy. well i hope they like the hole that they dug for themselves... and btw there are too many of these threads

**Digits** · 04-03-2004, 11:19 PM

Oh and honestlly I don't think anyone truely hates smart parts.. Very few people decide they will boycot them (And people that never would of bought sp stuff in the first place don't count).. Like hell you see everyone on the internet say "smart parts sucks", "screw smart parts", but then you go to the field and everyone says nice shocker can I try it... You have the few that will ramble on about oh I hate SP but no one does anything about it.. They just say they hate them once in the day and it's over.

**Glickman** · 04-03-2004, 11:19 PM

well if u havent seen, both are still around, their still producing their 04 guns, brand new, so they have some way of still producing and selling their guns.

**LudavicoSoldier** · 04-03-2004, 11:20 PM

The biggest problem I have with SP is that they are stifling innovation in electronic markers. Knowing that you will have to pay a licensing fee IS NOT an incentive to try to bring a new electro to market. I actually like some of SP's stuff (Freak, Maxflow), and at one time I had a glacier shocker, which I loved. I think its more a question of ethics, but then again, when has American business ever been ethical? Welcome to capitalism.

**-=Squid=-** · 04-03-2004, 11:22 PM

Well, personally, I know exactly whats going on.

With that said, I think the entire situation is bogus. Patenting that is like, as other people have put it, patenting the internal combustion engine. Its one of the things that is NEEDED for paintball to grow, and this only slowed things down.

On top of that, it ceased the production of what are arguably some of the best markers ever made, the viking and exalibur.

I dont hate them because its the "cool" thing to do, I hate them because I think what they did was wrong. There is a difference between a business deal, and what they did. I consider what they have done to be immoral, as if to go that far.

Before you supporters say that this sort of thing happens every day, sure it does. But im still entitled to my opinnion on the matter, and I think that paintball is a tight-knit enough community where I wouldnt imagine a company deliberately hurting the ENTIRE sport like that, but then again, it DID just happen, and its not changing.

With all of that being said, please let some of my advice soak in: DONT buy that shocker. For that $850 you could buy a dye matrix, which will not only be a MUCH better marker (faster, better customer service, less bugs, similar design which you seek, chops less, etc) but you will also not be supporting Smart Parts.

And yes, digits, I hate smart parts. I dont have the tiniest smart parts paraphenalia, and you will not see me asking to shoot ANYBODIES shocker. I have, in fact, not played because the only thing available was an impulse. Stupid? Not to me.

**Digits** · 04-03-2004, 11:23 PM

Originally posted by Glickman
well if u havent seen, both are still around, their still producing their 04 guns, brand new, so they have some way of still producing and selling their guns.

Well I think AKA is just finishing off there orders.. I don't think there taking anymore..

But yes ICD is still going.. Although there prices have inflated a little.

**jdev** · 04-03-2004, 11:36 PM

I dont think people really understand what is going on here. Smart Parts is enforcing a patent that they hold. end of story.

Everything else that comes into play is how they got that patent, albeit as broad as it is, is emotional response from players who have chosen from the start/prior to this patent enforcement, that they do not want to use products for one reason or another. Alot of people, since this blitzkreig tactic has come into play, have decide to no longer support smart parts because they think it is morally wrong. unfortunately, there are no morals in business, at least not anymore. smart parts is out for smart parts. they are enforcing patents that they hold.. no matter how broad they may be.

I read this today on planet eclipses websute (http://www.planeteclipse.com/site/eNews.asp?newsID=45)

related to the use of electronics in the control and operation of paintball guns. more or less, if its battery powered, you're screwed, to put it in lamens terms. One has to wonder, how a patent that broad was granted to an applicant. It just boggles the mind. Now, I dont really have any knowledge of the patents they do hold, I only know in short, it is described as it is taken from the quote above. But, how they got it, and get patents, are BS.

I was talking with Alan from Destructive Customs, about the smart parts things. He discussed and touched upon a few things that he asked I not repeat, but, this one thing we did discuss, I will mention (as he didnt ask me not to keep it to myself).

Smart parts recently (within the past 2 months) applied for a patent on something. I think it was similar to the opto-trigger on an angel. They were granted this patent in about 1 months time. Sound odd? It should. Jared, Alans partner, has applied for patents before, and on average, it takes about a year to get thing sorted out. Now, is there any relation to the patent offices favoritism, and smart parts? who knows, could be all speculation, but, its food for thought also.

in some sort of attempt to end this post and go to bed.. smart parts did what they had to do as a company. they enforced their patent. If they didnt, they lose it. simple as that. many of us dont like it, but, its done. its over. go back out to the field and play some ball with your e-marker.. just dont let it be a SP marker..

**Rope a Dope** · 04-03-2004, 11:44 PM

[thread hijack]

Smart Parts is GHEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[/thread hijack]

**Glickman** · 04-03-2004, 11:50 PM

Re: A nice, intelligent, mature convo about SP

If i get any "they still suck. period" then i shall disembowel you with a boomstick.

ok mr thread hijacker

*takes out boomstick*

**member#10,261** · 04-03-2004, 11:59 PM

I don't know all the little details...but I do know what is going on. I see it as smart parts looking out for smart parts. I don't think they are trying to f over the paintball community, I do think they are a buisness and as a buisness they defend thier rights. Although it is the low thing to do it is the smart thing to do. I do not blame them, I would do the same thing. BTW-the shocker is nice...but as sead before the trix is better.

**Glickman** · 04-04-2004, 12:05 AM

ive never acutally played in a game with the shocker so i cant compare it to my dye trix, but the thing is, its hella heavy. just alone it weighs 4.5 lbs. with a tank and empty hopper, 7 lbs. but it shoots really well, it would be alot better if i found someone to mill off that dead air chamber, doc never answeres, and noones seems to wanna try

**rx2** · 04-04-2004, 12:10 AM

I don't see how they are impeding the progress of the sport to any appreciable degree. They have made it a little less cost effective for some companies to produce electronically actuated markers. When you think about it, those sorts of triggering mechanisms, as they fall under the coverage of SP's patent, don't really have much of anywhere to progress to as far as innovation or technology. Already, these mechanisms allow firing rates far exceeding the limits of human physiology. The only real "advances" that I have seen being made as of late are ways to keep the mechanism functioning better under extreme use, and ways to cheat via the software used, which is something that isn't under SP's patent.

Now, I will grant that some companies who can't compete will have to bow out, which may remove certain coveted designs from the market. However, I fail to see any true setbacks because of this. For, it is arguable that what may seem to be the holy grail to some, is just something to note in passing to others. May overall quality suffer? Perhaps. But, it would only be speculation to say so.

Furthermore, as the cliche goes, necessity IS the mother of all invention. Really, most players and consumers are very complacent. Perhaps this little bump in the road might spur other advancements that certain manufacturers might have seen as too risky, or superfluous had they not been forced to give up electronic triggers, or pay to use them. Consider the hAir trigger. Two years ago, this might have been seen as merely a curiousity. Now, however, it seems more like an entirely viable option for firing fast, without the electronics. And, if this is something that will work as well as it seems it may, who is to say that certain companies might not try to find a way to apply this, or similar systems to their own markers, thus reviving designs that had been compromised by the SP lawsuit.

Finally, one has to ask themselves this question. If you were a manufacturer, who had "stumbled" upon the rights to a common system, would you not sieze the opportunity, especially in light of the fact that the end users and their dollars would still be there when the dust settled?
Really, people don't care enough to do anything, so why should SP care to forfeit the opportunity?

This isn't has bad as some make it out to be, it seems. I can think of other lawsuits that are in poorer taste, such as when $Gibson$ sued PRS because they have a guitar with a similar body shape, which is a shape that has been used by countless manufacturers for nearly a century. If they lost any money, it certainly isn't because another guitar looked slightly similar.

Of course, I can't argue that this SP lawsuit isn't a bit distasteful. Certainly, they have all of the money they need. But, that's capitalism, and if it weren't for ruthless competition, it could be argued that a lot of technology would fail to have been developed in the first place.

**-=Squid=-** · 04-04-2004, 12:10 AM

Originally posted by Glickman
ive never acutally played in a game with the shocker so i cant compare it to my dye trix, but the thing is, its hella heavy. just alone it weighs 4.5 lbs. with a tank and empty hopper, 7 lbs. but it shoots really well, it would be alot better if i found someone to mill off that dead air chamber, doc never answeres, and noones seems to wanna try

You already have a dye trix?!?

Jeez... dont waste money on that 03 shocker. If you HAVE to have a new gun in that price range, get a speed or something.

A nice, intelligent, mature convo about SP

A nice, intelligent, mature convo about SP

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