New 03 Shocker vs Used Emag

[vf-xx]

I realize that you were deciding between an Emag and a Shocker, but have you looked at the RT-Pro?

I've owned an emag and currently own an RTP and I think I can honestly say that I like my RTP set up BETTER than the emag. You can get a brand new full ULE RTP for $530 ish. Granted currently some of the parts are backordered but that's a detail. Find yourself a nice used tank either from your proshop or online for about $150 and we're talking a total price just under $700.

Benifits of the RTP as described:
ULE trigger - NICE trigger, I've never walked a trigger before this one
Xvalve - simple to maintain
LVX - Requires some adjustment, but once it's tuned it there's no chopping
Gripframe - Your choice of intelliframe or Y grip with only a $5 difference
Fully Mechanical, no batteries to charge or replace
ULE body - In combination with the X valve makes for a very light gun

Downside
Not electro- but with some practice you very well might not notice. Especially if you're coming from an older semi.

HPA required - To get any real performance out of the shocker you'd need HPA anyway.

I can't think of anything else right now, but that's my take on it.

[RT pRo AuToMaG]

I don't think so. I last a lot longer with my X-mag then all the Shocker owners I play with. The Shocker is basically a copy of the Matrix and suffers the same ineffeciancy problem!

Kidding? I surely hope so! Matrix with evolve bolt kit can get 2100+ shots from a 68/45, and an evolved shocker can get 1600+ shots from a 68/45. I'd LOVE to see a mag do that! Sure, you have to upgrade it, most guns are in need of upgrades out of the box. If you get the shocker, first of all, save up and get a vision model, and get an evolve (or freeflow) lpr and an evolve bolt kit. If you can't get a nitrogen tank, don't get either one of these guns, you WILL need nitrogen with both (I'm aware it says that the shocker is capible of running on co2, but to spend $800+ on a gun and running co2 is rediculous). Another option you may want to consider is a Matrix. Sure, they are a little heavy, but they are super fast, and with the right parts super efficient. You can get them new from dye with eyes and an lpr for $825, and find some really nice used ones for $750 or less. I have owned an emag and an RT pro before, and neither one has come close to shooting anything like my Matrix. It's simply the best gun I've owned. No kick at all, extremely fast, upgradeable, efficient (with the right parts). Whatever you do, I'd remove the mag as one of your choices, they are really not up to par with today's technology in guns (before you bash me, yes, I know about the r&d and everything that agd puts into their guns. The spool valve may not be a better design, but it sure is achieveing better rof with more efficientcy at a lower operating pressure)

[Enemy]

oh man..someone asks a simple question and he gets fed 10,000 answers all full of hype...emag with 4.01 i have seen walked to 24 bps and 22 in e mode..thats walked not put on full auto..like i said before i can walk an emag i cant a shocker the trigger gaurd is too small..also all this hype about guns is getting horrible the shocker is less than a pound lighter than the x-mag...weight is no longer an issue cuz everyone gets the lightest gun then carries half their weight in pods on their back..any way as far as effiency goes i know that mags arent the most effiecent but they will get you through most games..lvl 10 no chops, 3.2 and 4.01 software, gets rid of the bps caps, ule brings the weight down to the point where it will be even with almost all the markers out there, customer service is in favor of agd, rof is faster than you will ever pull the trigger, upgrades are endless with mags, range is all the same on every marker, consistency is with in +/-5 with decent tunning on lvl 10, maintence free and when it does break you can tear down the whole marker in less than a minute and thats taking your time, emag functions with out electronics in case you have any problems, truley both guns are even in my eyes with the mag ahead bye just alittle like i said before try to test em out both triggers function differently one might be more to your style than the other. just realize that if you get a ule emag the only upgrades that are likely to be done for performance is the 4.01 software thats it the rest is cosmetic, can you say that about any other marker out there.

[Mr. Frodo]

All of you have been awesome with sharing your personal experiences and opinions! Thank you!

Can I assume that maintaining Minimag valve is the same for a classic or RT? Because unless I can find a ULE or Micro Minimag with an Intelliframe and Level 10 or X-Valve for under $300, I'm going with a Dragun TES and a 68/45 and here's why:

Over the last week, I've been searching through all the usual paintball forums and reading a lot of threads about both markers. The overall consensus is that it's a bad idea to run CO2 through a Shocker, which I'm beginning to agree based on how CO2 behaves especially at 10+ bps. So, I'm going to have to include an HPA tank in the budget. Unfortunately, I can't find a decent Emag here in the classifieds or on Ebay that are priced less than a new Shocker with vision. (I found a really good deal for one with vision online.) So now I'm looking to spend $1000 for a marker and tank, which makes me cringe. I've been annoying my friends enough (at least the one who will listen and actually care), and I've been annoying my wife to the point where she's telling me to buy the Shocker so she can stop hearing me debate this issue! Yuck... $1000 for a marker and it probably won't be used to it's full potential, at least not yet. A Minimag seems to be more to my level of play, and they're probably easier to find....

[No sKiLLz]

Uh....go to your shop and ask the guy to hand you the Dragun TES and a BKO. BKO is lighter, comes with a better stock trigger, reg, LPR and barrel and you can upgrade a LOT more. TES eye is IR and you can never change that, but if you want an eye in the BKO, break beam is available. Vaporworks makes Chaos boards for the BKO and you can put a Zenitram ASA and Palmer Microrock and volumizer on it to bring the operating pressure far below what the TES is capable of, even with the ONE kit. BKO's are now Autococker threaded, so EVERY barrel manufacturer is available to you. Performance-wise there is not contest. Decide if you like the looks or not.

[gc82000]

I have to agree with no skillz on this one, the BKO is a much better gun and from a company with a longer history. Tes may come with a Spyder threaded barrels but it is basically a ripped off Spyder. Get a BKO and an HPA system so you play can be year around.

[CoolHand]

All you guys who have been poo-pooing the use of CO2 on a 2k3 Shocker need to take a step back, and really look at what you are saying.

Have you ever tried it? No?

Well I have, in fact, I have one setting right here now, that has been up to at least 15 bps on CO2, with no problems at all. I cannot say how it will run at 20+ bps, because I cannot pull the trigger that fast. However, if I were to make a guess, I would say it would run just fine, the vert reg may get a little chilly (never iced once on me though) at the higher ROF's, but other than that, I see no problems.

ANY marker (and I do mean any) that will run at <600 PSI will work just fine on CO2, the trick is to use an Anti-Siphon tube, and get it regulated down to the minimum input pressure, before it goes into the markers first reg (IE you have to double reg it).

I find it funny that an HPA tank brings with it a sort of snobbery that was once reserved for folks riding in Duzenburgs. ("You're using a CO2 tank?! Oh God! I can't even IMAGINE playing like that. You poor fool. Come back and talk to me when you can afford an Nitro tank of your own." All said in a Rockafeller accent of course )

Also, if you are wanting to avoid the HPA tank, think about an Impulse. They run like champs on CO2 (lower input pressure yet), and are pretty durned fast with a little help. Not too expensive either. Just a thought.

All in all, I think you'd be better off with a nicer marker that you can run off of CO2, rather than a Dragun, and a preset HPA tank. Its just my opinion, and its worth what you paid me for it (nothing that is), but I have seen, in my experience, a performance plateau in the PB marker world.

At the bottom you have the Spyders and the other sear tripping blowbacks ($150-$250), which work very well for their prices, but leave something to be desired performance wise.

Then you can step up to the nice cockers, or mid range electro pneumatics (bushys, Imps, etc.) ($400-$600), which offer significant performance gains for moderate increases in price.

Next come the high end markers ($900-Gozzillian$) (Nice Timmies, XMags, Ultimate Shockers, High End Imps, EBladed Cockers, Trixes of all sorts, DM4s, Cyborgs, Etc.), which offer moderate to tiny increases in performance (over the $400-$600 markers), coupled with hella steep price tags.

IMHO, most folks are far better off to go with the second group of markers running on CO2, rather than the first group on HPA. If you are looking at markers in group three, but money is a big issue, see the above statement.

If money is no object, then by all means, buy the best HPA system out there, and the nicest marker from group three that you can find, and be very happy (giddy is probably the best word in that case), unless there just isn't any HPA around to be had.

This whole big rant had a point, which I hope you stumbled across in there somewhere, I just get tired of CO2 being portrayed as the great SATAN!

lol

Later

[No sKiLLz]

CO2 is less consitant and is effected more by temperature change. Such is the nature of Satan.

[Mr. Frodo]

CoolHand: You da man! And I appreciate the explination.

No sKiLLz: D@mn you for giving me more to think about! :) Really though, it's becoming more evident to me that there are a lot of choices in the "mid range," and I'm learning quite a bit from all this research. The Dragun TES is something my local shop had lying on the counter that pique my interest. It was light, not as ugly as a spyder, shot as fast the new Shocker, and cheap. I thought of it as future backup. They had a Shocker there as well, so I was able to compare the weight and feel side by side: 1.5 versis 2.1 pounds respectively with their stock barrels. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to shoot them.

[CoolHand]

CO2 is less consitant and is effected more by temperature change. Such is the nature of Satan.

[Satan Voice] FOOL! [/Satan Voice]

CO2 is less consistant, only if it is not properly regulated.

As for tempurature, see above about proper regulation.

HPA seems more consistent, because it is ALMOST ALWAYS double regulated. People are comparing the output of a regulator to the output of a pin valve, and then deducing that CO2 sucks because there is fluctuation. Put a good reg on a CO2 tank, and you will find that the output is rock solid, just like HPA (unless you try to go above the max working pressure of CO2, IE its a bit hard to coax 1000psi out of a 20oz).

I'll let you in on a little secrect - I have never owned a marker that I didn't run on CO2. The list includes Angels, and XValved Mags, as well as Imps, Shockers of various vintages, Bushys, an EMatrix, Spyders and clones, and Cockers of every sort (Eblade and mech). Some worked better than others, but they all worked well enough to play with.

AO'ers pride themselves on seeing through the hype, and questioning everything, so I just thought I'd try to help folks get over these last couple of misconceptions.

Can CO2 work in every situation that HPA will?

No, but there are damn few of those situations.

Is CO2 as easy to use as HPA in all situations?

No, to get the most out of your CO2 system, you have to take your time, and make sure you set it up right, HPA is usually Plug-N-Play.

For the most part, CO2 will serve you well, and provide much more bang for your buck (Can you shoot ~ two cases off of your 68 CU bottle? Cause I can. )

Anyway, that's the story.

[James]

Go to www.shockerowners.com and post the same...

Get a spectrum of opinions...

From what Iv'e seen lately... the gun isnt exactly problem free... id say 2 out of the 10 shockers that ive seen lately had some MAJOR chopping/ball breakage problems. Some had FSDO, some worked perfect.

I would hold on getting a shocker until they get problems ironed out.

Some peeps are having problem with the front bolt o-ring shredding paintballs.

This of course would not be a problem if they put the o-ring on the bolt INSTEAD of in the breach like its been done for YEARS.

there are about 5-6 03 shockers out here and not one problem.
i love my emag though. and i've been playing with 03 shockers for the last 3 weeks now vision and non vision i know my next gun will more than likely be an 03 shocker as my back up.

[kauai_paintball]

Call me EEEEVVVVIIILLLL!!! tee heez! Im going ot find someone who will trade my angel for his emag, sell my emag, take the mu=oney, and buy a brand new 2k4 vision shocker. call me an idiot, call me a mag hater, call me what you want, but you cant deny this: Shockers are DAAM SEXY!!!!!! and REALLY FRICKEN NICE!!!! and I like mags. but they too heavy.

[TheDuelist]

I sold my Emag for a new shocker and haven't looked back since. Efficiency isn't a concern for me since I can fill after every game anyway. My Emag setup weighed 9.5 lbs compared to 5.75 with the setup I have now. I am a pretty big guy so its not that I couldn't handle the weight. With the shocker I find I can bring my marker on an opponent faster than before. Overall I enjoy the shocker. Vision isn't a necessity. My brother is one of the fastest shooters I know and he never uses the eyes when he plays and has never had a problem.

[James]

and I like mags. but they too heavy.

can i call you a wimp.
it irrititates me when people complain about the weight of a gun my 9 year old neice can carry my full emag setup around..
personally i think if people complain about holding 7-10 lbs they shouldnt play the sport, i'd hate to hear what they say about getting bunker'd.

[steveo356]

well you could find a used angel led /lcd for ne where form 350/700 and will keep up with a shocker. also angel has more of a bling factor name i think. the emag will do you fine if its taken care of and well tuned.

I like the looks of the shocker its feather light as well i considered buying one at one time but i think i may abandon that hope and take my buisiness else where