Wow! NXL set BPS limit

[cledford]

[QUOTE=Jack & Coke]IMO, they should have added a minimum trigger pull weight requirement.



If i were King, I would run it like this:

- FA allowed (after first 3 shots)
- MAX ROF = 13 BPS
- 1-3 lbs. min. trigger pull weight
- Single trigger frames only (safer handling, 3 fingers gripping the gun while running and driving, is better than 2)
QUOTE]


Word!

[bballe336]

i didnt think nxl could suck even more but they do. and i think that they are reffering to no full auto over 15 bps but i could be wrong anyways this is *POOF*, the nppl doesnt even have a bps cap rule and they have rules about almost everything that is phically possible at a paintball tourney.

*Warning: No Cussing* -Miscue

[MasonFootball89]

Bps

How do you shoot a fraction of a ball?

You can shoot 15 1/2 BPS if when the second is over the ball is like half way through the barrel I think

[nippinout]

This solves nothing.

People will have still have their guns go well past the 15bps limit.

With all the firing around, how are the refs supposed to make sure you fired the 3 required semi-auto shots before cheater mode kicks in. Time machines? Instant replays?

[ryanshep]

i assume they would be checking it the same way they do bounce.

This solves nothing.

People will have still have their guns go well past the 15bps limit.

With all the firing around, how are the refs supposed to make sure you fired the 3 required semi-auto shots before cheater mode kicks in. Time machines? Instant replays?

[Torbo]

What about the new wave of "fast mechanicals"?

For electros, which are the only markers capable for really going that fast in tournament play, a BPS cap is easily implemented. What do you do when the GFORCE and hAIR trigger hit the market though?

great, except no one in the NXL will be using them. All those teams are heavily sponsored by big companies (NPS, SP, DYE). To change guns/sponsorship theyd have to get a better sponsorship deal. Which they would not get from AGD. There is no other gun marufacturer (other than maybe wdp) that can support an NXL team. AGD does not sponsor even one tournament team, so theyre not gonna sponsor a NXL team. And those teams arnt gonna use AGD products without huge sponsorship from them.

[Off topic rant] The same goes for all the big name pro/D1/D2 teams. Even when the hair trigger comes out, No big teams are going to use it. Therefore it wont get the publicity that would help it suceed. I think mostly current mag owners will buy it anyway. This wont be the 'salvation' for agd. [/end off topic rant]

[billmi]

not technically....it does qualify for the first 3 balls to be true semi, but the hair does not qualify at being limited to only 15bps (since the hair can fire faster than 15). this is very interesting. they should amend it to say that any mech marker has a limitless bps

It doesn't matter if the marker is capable of shooting faster. They are monitoring on field rates of fire with hyperdirectional microphones. If you shoot over 15 bps, you're penalized, what mode your gun is in doesn't matter.

This stems from the fact that no league has yet to come up with a way to combat hidden cheater modes. The NXL has simply changed their rules to where there is no advantage gained by hiding a mode, and capped both velocity and ROF, and set up ways to measure velocity and ROF while the game is in play. Off-field gun testing is irellevent, only on-field performance is an issue.

An NXL player could use a HAIR trigger. The rule does not speficy ROF limits that a gun must meet during off-field testing, it's all about what the player does on field. If they shoot faster than 15 bps on the field, during a game and get caught by the ref that is spot checking people for ROF, they will be penalized.

[Muzikman]

It doesn't matter if the marker is capable of shooting faster. They are monitoring on field rates of fire with hyperdirectional microphones. If you shoot over 15 bps, you're penalized, what mode your gun is in doesn't matter.

This stems from the fact that no league has yet to come up with a way to combat hidden cheater modes. The NXL has simply changed their rules to where there is no advantage gained by hiding a mode, and capped both velocity and ROF, and set up ways to measure velocity and ROF while the game is in play. Off-field gun testing is irellevent, only on-field performance is an issue.

An NXL player could use a HAIR trigger. The rule does not speficy ROF limits that a gun must meet during off-field testing, it's all about what the player does on field. If they shoot faster than 15 bps on the field, during a game and get caught by the ref that is spot checking people for ROF, they will be penalized.

Problem is slowing down a mechanical gun but still keeping up with electros. With an electronic gun, you can say, "do not allow this gun to shoot faster than 15bps, but let it shoot exactly 15bps" in the code and if written well, it will do just that. I can not tell my finger the same

So, what they are doing (and it's not like any one would use one any way), is eliminating the ability to use a mechanical marker in a game without the fear of being penalized.

[paint magnet]

So what exactly is defined as 15 bps? 15 shots, each 1/15th of a second apart? Or no more than 15 shots in one second, regardless of the rate at which they are fired? For example, say I shoot 15 shots, at a rate of 30 shots per second (this is hypothetical, remember), and quit shooting after half a second, then resume firing a few seconds later. I have only shot 15 balls in a one second time span, but I shot them at a rate higher than 15 bps. What happens then?

And why would anyone think this is crap, or that it could have a negative effect on the market? How many new players do you think are going to come to the sport when some mom send her 10 year old to play paintball for the first time and he comes back from a game with 23 welts? I'm not saying that everyone who has a fast gun overshoots people, but the fact remains that there are individuals out there who do shoot people that many times. Whether they are ***holes or are just ignorant, or can't control their guns, I don't know, but it happens.

And yes, while I will admit it is very fun to shoot extremely fast for no good reason, it has its place. Showing off over the chrono, raining paint on someone's bunker, stuff like that - but not hitting someone 14 times. Perhaps there wouldn't be a problem with a gun's capability at achieving a rate of fire if the user (again, talking about the majority, I realize that there are sensible players out there as well) was smarter or more considerate, but that's not the case.

Besides, why do you need to shoot more than 15 bps? (Why even 15 bps for that matter? 10 bps leaves a gap of ~ 10 inches between balls, I think, it's not like anyone is going to squeeze through that) You can only hide your lack of skill behind your rate of fire for so long.

My .02

[hitech]

(Why even 15 bps for that matter? 10 bps leaves a gap of ~ 10 inches between balls, I think, it's not like anyone is going to squeeze through that)...

Nope. At 200fps and 10bps there are 20 feet between paintballs (fps/bps). At 300fps it's 30 feet.

[Brophog]

It is a 30 feet gap, but it closes in a tenth of a second.

Making the limit 15 bps will not effect how the game is played. It may open the game up very slightly, but only at the start or other long distances.

[Digits]

hmm I wonder how many people will actually use f/a, or just get the board to ramp hardcore after a few bps.. The whole hold down the triger thing after 3 shots would suck of the break compared to walking it at a slow pase and getting the same results..

Anwayes though.. It's the NXL so who cares.. I can't see the NPPL or PSP changing over to this, especially how strict the NPPL is..

But honestly this sucks, it takes all the fun out of cheating.. It's not about the extra bps, its the thrill of getting away with it.. Now thats gone

[j.t.]

In my opinion this rule makes quite a bit of sense. All of the current cheater boards out there dont bounce like you might suspect. They do so in such a controlled manner that its nearly impossible to tell a bouncing gun from one that isnt. The gun will always shoot the first few shots at the highest debounce possible to avoid runaways, and then the debounce goes way down so it feels like your actually pulling the trigger that fast (which you obviously arent). Keep in mind, the gun also stops shooting as soon as you stop, unlike some of you believed. This basically just allows you to hit those super high ROFs without much effort... it does not mean that someone is using a gun that is totally out of control (shooting when the trigger is let go etc)

By setting a 15 bps limit, you dont allow the gun the same opportunity to hit those high, unhuman like bps. Any pro player out there can shoot 15 bps, even without the cheater board. Heck, most people i know can still hit 15 bps with their boards set to their highest debounce settings. As long as the gun is shooting CONTROLLABLY (first 3 shots are true semi, and the gun stops shooting when you do) then this new rule is fine in my books. If it becomes a trend then maybe you wont have to worry about getting shot up by some kid who shoots 24 bps with his dm4. There is a huge difference between 15 and 20+ as BlackVCG said. That, and most of the people I see getting overshot are the ones who expect you to stop shooting when they are standing in your way, although there are always a few that get overshot because some idiot did it intentionally.

Not only that, but alot of people seem to have this conception that the higher bps slows down game play alot. I dunno about you but have you ever watched any of the old pro videos where everyone shot mech cockers? Compare that to the game of today and well there is very little movement except for at the breakouts. I do realize though, that in the lower levels of game play, the higher ROF does slow down game play. There is nothing more annoying to me then to play a team at my local field who relies on shooting paint and snap shooting. There is just more to the game then that.

Those who also believe that pro players are just players who lack skill and hide behind their high rates of fire and win through cheating... well you better think again. I was lucky enough to get to play with Arsenal and the Jax Warriors (got owned ) and also have played with True Colors (a div 2 xball team that usually places pretty well) and you cannot understand the amount of skill these players have until you play against them. You have to realize that higher rates of fire actually open up the game to even more movement when used correctly. I mean, why the heck are you standing behind a bunker if you can shoot 18+ bps at your opponents? If your able to be posted on them and be shooting then why arent you shooting and running up the field? Start playing against better people and this becomes an essential skill. The pros are amazing at running and shooting... watch some of the newer xball vids closely and you can see how big of a role it plays in their game. Not only that, but players no longer have to wait until players start to get eliminated to move up the field.

...Just thought id state my opinion on this matter since its quite different from most peoples on this forum.

[billmi]

especially how strict the NPPL is..

The NPPL is not nearly as strict on gun enforcement as they would lead people to believe with their press releases. They are way more strict than they used to be, but there's still a major gap in testing and enforcement.

On the up side, Dave Zinkham has contributed immensely to their rule enforcement by developing and implementing equipment to test gun set ups for velocity ramping and adding shots off field. Those are major strides, and I think he deserves a lot of credit for what he has done.

On the down side - none of that testing off field ensures that the gun is operating in the same mode on the field as it is on the test stand. This means that the teams without access to custom software loaded into their guns, are the ones to get caught.

A board with cheater software that switches into an illegal mode when a secret code is tapped on the trigger (like hold down the trigger 2 seconds, release, fire one quick shot, then hold down two seconds again) and then reverts back to the legal mode when it hasn't been fired for some amount of time like 20 seconds or so (or even less, like 5 seconds.) By the time it's been carried off-field to test it will be back to legal operation.

Unless the testing staff has the ability to verify what software is loaded into the circuit board (not practical under current market and technology conditions) or stumbles upon the code on accident (incredibly unlikely) or someone on the team using the illegal board confesses (refs could interview people who leave teams under unhappy circumstances) the gun will be operating legally when it is tested off field. The player will then freely be able to use the super-hopped-up illegal mode off field. I know for a fact (having test fired a board that did this, and talked to a former member of a team that used those boards when they won a national event) that this has been done in the past, and believe it to be very likely that some teams still do it today.

Enforcing true semi-mode on field would mean somehow monitoring both the input (trigger pulls) and output (firing) of the guns for comparison. I don't see a practical, non-invasive way to do that with the current state of tournaments.

NXL's approach was to think outside the box - change the rules to something they can enforce - as they can monitor both max ROF and velocity that players are shooting during games. True, they don't have a way in place to make sure those first three shots are true semi-auto, but there's little advantage to be gained by breaking that rule.

What the NXL is doing is still far from perfect too - this was their first event attempting to check ROF during an actual tournament, and their system has had trouble. It's a workable concept though, so we'll see how long it takes to get the measuring equipment up to snuff.

[Miscue]

Well it is my thinking that whoever is running the NXL better have some mighty deep pockets. Someone IS going to get hurt. Shame on the NXL. What a stupid decision to allow anything but semi auto.

Personally, I think this method of firing is safer. These bouncy markers go out of control - with random behavior. We were already doing almost full-auto, except you didn't have full control over it. With these rules, a bouncy trigger is undesireable.

15bps - it'll creep up to 18. Then it will creep up to 20.