AGD let us down?

[Amea]

and the best Bob Long can do is come out with a new look every month.

AGD

LOL. Well said, well said. So true.

[Muzikman]

To be honest, I have sat here thinking...I can not think of one item that AGD has squashed the little guy with while using their "patents". If you can think of one, please tell me.

[hitech]

I take it that you didn't read Tom's post from awhile ago that listed what he would like to produce, if he wasn't afraid of patent litigation and trying to market it?

[TAW]

All I can think of is two, but I could be wrong.

1. ICD mech marker used the same internal valve setup
2. A guy in Australia used the same valve set up.

[cphilip]

All I can think of is two, but I could be wrong.

1. ICD mech marker used the same internal valve setup
2. A guy in Australia used the same valve set up.

1) Not the case at all
2) the guy copied AGD and was run outa business. Not by copyrights enforcement or legal manuvers. By good old competitive business marketing. No lawyers involved....

So you got any more since those don't wash?

[TAW]

cphilip, The statement was not that AGD used legal pressure or not. So AGD used competitive marketing, good for them. I'm just saying someone tryed to copy AGDs designs and AGD dealt with them just like any other buisness would do. But like I said I could be wrong, and I could only think of two.

So you got any more...

[cphilip]

Well in the cases you mention one did not just copy one thing. He flat out reproduced the entire darn marker. He was out sold and HE decided to give it up. That is not in the same venue with what was being compared here. So I don't think those two even apply because its apples and oranges to what started THIS conversation.

But I want to point out this.... Tom has CAD drawings here of things like bodies and even gives out specifications to some of the marker specifics in order to assist people here in trying to make stuff for his markers. Who can point to anyone who so openly does that besides Tom? Go look in Tech. There is CAD drawings there even now of the Slug body. Name me one manufacturer that posts that on his site?

[TAW]

Ok, no problem. You don't have to tell me what a stand up company AGD is. I've used only AGD markers since 94 and I mean only AGD markers. Why change if they work so good and the staff is cool no matter how stupid a question you call up and ask them.

So you got any more...

[Magglerock]

You have been used to the candy store of new developments and then you watched while lawsuits took over the industry. Some of you said something but most did NOT.

Excuse me, but we are customers, and most of us are nothing more than children. It is not our position to run your company, nor regulate the marketplace in which it operates. I mean no disrespect, but it is YOUR responsability as a business owner to protect yourself against your competition. It is not our fault that your competitors made some savy moves and secured a strong position within the industry. You had the opportunity to fight it, and you chose not to. I think it is rediculous to expect your customers to expend themselves in your defense. Is it not enough that we buy your product?

[Miscue]

Excuse me, but we are customers, and most of us are nothing more than children. It is not our position to run your company, nor regulate the marketplace in which it operates. I mean no disrespect, but it is YOUR responsability as a business owner to protect yourself against your competition. It is not our fault that your competitors made some savy moves and secured a strong position within the industry. You had the opportunity to fight it, and you chose not to. I think it is rediculous to expect your customers to expend themselves in your defense. Is it not enough that we buy your product?

They don't have a million bucks lying around, to fight this sort of thing... takes money... money they wouldn't get a return on.

[SlartyBartFast]

They don't have a million bucks lying around, to fight this sort of thing... takes money... money they wouldn't get a return on.

Hmm. How about if they had asked for $10 for every marker produced with a powerfeed?

Every company in every industry and all the wannabees that follow the industry have huge wish lists of products they'd make if there weren't patents on them or parts required to make them.

Live with it. I actually found Tom's post with his list a little whiney. Either come up with completely new ideas that aren't part of any patent, come to an agreement with the patent holders or buy the patent, go ahead and prepare to defend yourself against a lawsuit, or get out of the business.

It's the way things work.

[SlartyBartFast]

2) the guy copied AGD and was run outa business. Not by copyrights enforcement or legal manuvers. By good old competitive business marketing. No lawyers involved....

With the Colonial, sure. But wasn't there an insert for a popular pump too?

AGD ran him out of business only because they figured it was cheaper than a lawsuit (or there complications with the international part).

That's business. First is it worth waiting and paying for a patent, then is it worth enforcing/licencing, or is it best to be first to market and make your money while you can.

[slasherdan]

Live with it. I actually found Tom's post with his list a little whiney. Either come up with completely new ideas that aren't part of any patent, come to an agreement with the patent holders or buy the patent, go ahead and prepare to defend yourself against a lawsuit, or get out of the business.

It's the way things work.

To be honest I found the original post a little whiney. AGD is in the process of trying to protect itself and literally needs to be careful about what it comes out with for now. And the guy is like "where's the new stuff ... WWWHHHAAAAAAAA!!" Granted his attitude changed but I can understand Tom's reply.

I'm sure you would get pissed if you're trying to keep your company afloat and you have people telling you that you suck ....

Granted that doesn't mean I agree with some of the things he said .... But I understand his response.

[Beowulfs_Ghost]

Thinking about Kingman, and the insane amount (and variety) of markers they make...

Why does AGD need to come out with a "gun of the month" when a stock Classic Mag is better then the newest stock Spyder.

If AGD wanted to make a ton of easy money, they could market Classic Mags to the Model 98 buyers. I'm assuming there is no legal issues with selling Classic Mags. Just take an old lvl 7 mag, give it a flat black body with a single 3/8" dovetail sight and jugs for a sling, a plain jane barrel, a vert ASA (sell a foregrip, hose, bottom ASA as an "upgrade kit"), and market it to compete with the A-5 or M98 (ie for under $300).



The only snag I can see in relation to SP and the paintball world is the tournament market. That's the only place where electric markers are a must have. The scenario/recball/woodsball players (you know, the _vast_ majority of the PB market) are happy with spyders and model 98's. For most of these guys a $300 A-5 is a "pimpin' gun".

Kingman and Tippman have shown that you don't need to have to have the latest and greatest to run a succesful company. When was the last time either of those companies came out with a new design? Spyders are still stacked tube blowbacks where high-end is considered electronic grips and regulators, and the only functional difference between an A-5 and a pro-carbine is the cyclone feed.

The only "snag" is the ease at which one can get high rates of fire. SP's legal shenanigans are a non-issue for the millions of people that head out to the woods on any given weekend. Where a case of paint is shared with a group for a whole day and not dumped in one game by one player.

In simple terms, AGD needs an entry level marker for these entry level players. Unfortunately, they seem to have discontinued their only option. The Classic Automag, which sold for about $200 and had no barrel or ASA.

[felony]

this thread should be covered in gasoline and set a blaze. nothing can be done now, and it is really really pointless to discuss it because it brings up all the topics that we have gone over like 32,000 times.

I agree with the original post of expecting more from AGD, but thats not what this has turned into, has it?