REDRT to AGD come in TK

[jonmcfatty]

my intimidator bounced like mad.

[RTDynaflow]

I wasnt trying to flame the tourny guys (alls I play is tourny). But I was merely stating the facts. I look at everything from a business standpoint (marketing major) and I was simply stating what I saw from my experiences. Sorry if I offended anyone. I wasnt glorifying the scenario player, but the fact is that is like 99% of the business.

Im gonna vent a little here. I love paintball to death. But how things are done is just plain stupid. A large company like National wants to market their hot new paint thrower by GIVING away hundreds of them (yes hundreds of them) to teams. Thats cool if they wanna do that (its great for the teams) but honestly, isnt their a better way to market your stuff? Ask Glenn Palmer what he thinks of sponsorship, and be prepared for his response.

I read a post made by TK saying that paintball companies no longer have a choice in what they make, and he hit the nail on the head. If I had ten million dollars to design and build a marker that would turn the paintball world on its head, I sure as hell wouldnt do it. Lets say I did build my super marker. What would I have to consider in building my gun? First off, it would probably infringe on the SP patent, so I would have to raise my price. Then, I would have to make be able to shoot at least twenty balls a second, but capable of soooo much more. Oh, and it cant break paint, even if I have a few bad balls in ever pod. Oh, it has to be ultra light weight, and super gas efficient. However, by far the most important thing I have to do for my gun is make it look cool. Because, since im just giving these guns away to teams, I have to design multiple mill patterns that do nothing for the guns preformance. Did anyone notice I said "give them away"?

Oh, and by the way, those teams that Im giving my super markers to? They will wipe as many hits as they can get away with, they will full auto 18 balls a second into the air when five or six will suffice, they will scream at refs who are only doing their job, they will throw my super markers into the air or find some other way of breaking them (thats cool, Ill just give em another) and in general act like fools. Will this reflect on me in any way? Probably not, cause I will just give my gun to like 20 other teams. You get the idea.

There are pro players out there that will give you 3 jerseys when you ask for one, who will give you advice on snap shooting drills, who will encourage you to be a better player. Those guys are awesome, and if it werent for them there would be less kids aspiring to play at a higher level. But I can see why AGD dosent wanna try to corner the tourney market. Cause the market is f'ed up. Peace

very good post! I agree with you. Hell, I am one of them. Honestly, If you can get the exact same item online for 200 less, would you? Don't tell me no; you are either a liar, or just plain rich. I do, however, feel bad afterwards. I go into the proshop for all my accesories, and they look at me... Judas! =/ Atleast I bought my accesories here =/.

As for most tourney players being aholes. I haven't been to a tourny in 4 years or so. The teams at my local field, they are some great people.

my intimidator bounced like mad.

o yeah, my DM4 ramps like a mofo. Since we are WAY off topic here and all

[REDRT]

I feel misunderstood. I'm saying that there is some people that was lucky enough to have a 4.0 software. Some had problems and some didn't. I'd like to see the playing field leveled so we all can be equal as far as software. I think that if we all had 4.0 equiped mags that the potential buyer would be more appt to look at mags. The 4.0 brings the mag closer to the current level supergun. Since there is no electronic markers in the stable anymore I guess my words ring hollow, in a futile attempt for mag dominance on the tourney field. I want ADG to excel at all aspects of the game. Because I'm oblivious to any legalities that there may be, that makes me a dreamer. Isn't it ok to dream?

[ilikePB]

I'm not understanding the whole thing about 4.2 being on the edge. That's the whole idea. We want fast guns that are legal, but barely. Am I misunderstanding what he meant by being on the edge? As long as it's not over the edge than it's all good.

[LaW]

It is on the edge because although it may be legal sometimes the software is so close that it runs the risk of it not being legal sometimes as well thus causing problems. That is my understanding, if its on the edge it can go either way

[ilikePB]

OK. So most of the time it is legal, but sometimes it can uncrontolabley go illegal? Maybe put more r&d into it? I'm just not understanding why there is Equalizer, Fenzy, Pandora, Tadao, Anderson, etc etc, that make other guns easier to shoot fast, but can still be legal, and there not be a board with similar features for the E/X Mag. I'm sure some can shoot 3.2 fast, but I sure can't. Of course that could be because of the trigger configuration and not the software.

[Beemer]

Its all about the ASTM standards right now.

Go back and read AGD post again and read the link I put up about the pinto[THEY KNEW]

Thats where it is right now. They know its against ASTM standards but do it anyway.
because everybody else does it doesnt mean AGD should. Its on the edge of the standards.

Guess where the first place the lawyers and the CPSC goes when the crap hits the fan. You guessed it the ASTM standards that were put in place by the industry for the industry. Doesnt seem to be working to good does it?

[jonmcfatty]

the atsm is overrated.

I you can't tell I've run out of arguments. but i still want it

[msprince]

Okay, usually I stay out of debates if I'm coming in late but I HAVE to put my .02 in. I play the scenario market, I've won both MVP and the Sportsmanship award, each time with over 200 other people (mostly men,) in it playing with me and against me...my team's pretty recognizable out on that field and we don't even have custom jerseys. With all this said I don't see sponsors knocking down the doors to get us there products even though at every game I probably have at least 100 people ask me what I shoot and why. The thing is I play with what I like everyone on my team plays with what they can afford, everything from Spyders, to Tippmans, to Automags, to my personal favorite the ULE RT. Some of the markers that go up against us are Angels, Karnivorrs, Race half-blocks, you name it scenario players don't just stick to lower end guns no matter what anyone says. The last game I was at I was talking to the WGP guys they said they'd like to look into getting more involved with the scenario market.. WHY...because we're pretty much all around stand up guys and gals..maybe...but it's where the money is. Not the actual games but the merchandise sold to its players. I love watching tournaments, I can't take my kids because every other word out of most of the players is f..in this f..that not to mention the cheat factor, I don't want my kids to see that even once, they've only played scenario and rec ball and have almost never come across that it's way more family oriented. Okay now that I'm so far off track it hurts.... TK go for it, stick with the people who thank God you're alive every day, who will email you, write you, and post you to thank you without ever expecting any kind of reward in return. BUT keep making everything you've got better, don't just increase the rate of fire because some tourny players want it ( there's going to be a cap on BPS soon anyways) but fix the problems you're having and then show everyone," Look I design these markers because I love the challenge not because I'm a sell out I'm good, NO great at what I do and remember I was one of the originals and I still am, no HUGE mother company is going to take away my freedom my players take care of me and I take care of them! " 'Nuff said.

Steph
MXS AD
"The Cookie LAdy"

[ilikePB]

I'm just gunna end my posting in this thread by saying that AGD has now committed suicide in the tourney market.

[LaW]

umm I believe that was the entire idea behind the decision to shift complete focus on the rec/scenario world. Obviously it wasnt put into those words I am sure. Perhaps the rate of tournament players switching to AGD products was not very high. Most of the purchases were probably from those who were previous owners of AGD markers.

[msprince]

And I wasn't bashing tournaments or there players I have A LOT of good friends who play in them and I'd never do that. I don't think Mr. Kaye has committed suicide with the tourny players either I just think that people can only tell you you're no good for so long before you either start believing them or you stop believing IN THEM. I think if you want a E-Mag buy one, if you want a Tac-one buy it, it's your choice but all things come in time, be patient. Lastly, it's nice to have someone focusing their attention on scenario because I believe AGD is one of the ONLY gun manufacturers that is right now, excluding Palmers Pursuit Shop which seems to focus on whatever Glen wants Tourny is great, scenario is great, woods, fields, desert, bunkers, rocks, I'll play it all, but I play for the love of the game and if I win then it makes it a little sweeter, if I don't there is always tomorrow and if tomoorow never comes, then I'll die with paint in my hair and welts on my arms and a smile on my face
Once again ....'nuff said

Steph
MXS AD
"The Cookie Lady"

[Enos Shenk]

Anyone who thinks theres no money in the rec market should take a trip down adams center road in fort wayne and take a look at the new tippmann building.

[jrod]

Applause for MSPrince!!!! Well said!