Hot Off the MILL! Custom Extreme!!

[damageinc54]

I like the finger grooves milled into the grip frame but otherwise I think the gun looks hideous.

[RSUAVE911]

Ok I really hate the milling job.

It kind of looks like some kind of aztec drawings, its definitely not look too good.

It should be more of body chunk millings.


More than just engraving designs into the gun.

Yeah I think someone said it, I think the logo should be engraved somewhere (battery pack).

I really love what you did at the end of the gun (where the valve would be. LOOKS REALLY COOL!!!

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK! :) :)

[RSUAVE911]

Ok I really hate the milling job.

It kind of looks like some kind of aztec drawings, it definitely NEED SOME MORE WORK.

It would be more a lot better if it was more of body chunk millings.


More than just engraving designs into the gun.

Yeah I think someone said it, I think the logo should be engraved somewhere (battery pack).

I really love what you did at the end of the gun (where the valve would be. LOOKS REALLY COOL!!!

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK! :) :)

[Gecko]

Manike
I'm taking a cnc class next semester and hopefully will be able to steal some time on some of the schools brand new Haas machines. Curious about how long it takes you to draw up the desighns? I've been trying to think of how you run the patterns around the curves and come up with a blank on how to do it in Autocad......
Gecko

[paintbattler]

i think its a kool design but wont u think it wood be a little expensive? id say it will prob be way more than any angel out there..bout 2000-2200? i dunno im not an expert in pricing tho...

[Sledgehammer]

Shartley: Thanks man, that is sweeeet!!! (drool)

Manike: Valve exposed definitely!

[Manuel_FZR]

Originally posted by John Sosta, AGD Europe
Hehehe You said you wanted to see the valve... How about I do that and take off 5oz of the original 11.5Oz it started as... How light!

First one just came of the mill. First matching battery pack is under way...


manike

Take it all away ... and: no pics/graphics ... but style!

[shartley]

Tremismanike

I wish modelling in 3D and milling was as quick and easy as photoshop but sometimes It's just a little harder working in the 'real' world.

[John Sosta, AGD Europe]

Originally posted by Gecko
Manike
I'm taking a cnc class next semester and hopefully will be able to steal some time on some of the schools brand new Haas machines. Curious about how long it takes you to draw up the desighns? I've been trying to think of how you run the patterns around the curves and come up with a blank on how to do it in Autocad......
Gecko

Hhmmm It's difficult to say and it depends on what you mean by drawing up designs.

There are two ways of doing this, one where you 3D model the whole thing and then cut the surfaces you have and one where you have the blank and visuallize in your mind what the toolpath you write will cut from it.

The two designs here are very much a mixture of these two processes.

I have another I am working on dubbed the Manik-E-Mag in which I have over 30 modelling hours so I have a perfect 3D model of it before I start machining. That one still isn't finished but that way I know exactly what it will be like before I start writing any NC code.

manike

[manike]

Reality bites...

Originally posted by shartley
I know that the designs I put online are quite possible. I made sure I did not do something that could not be done, or would be unrealistic. And I have perfect faith that if you WANTED to, you could reproduce them.

This annoys me because you talk as if you know what you are talking about when you obviously do not. I would not tell you what it is possible with photoshop so please do not tell me what is possible in 3D modelling and milling. I suggest we both stick to talking about our respective skills. You make images and I will tell you if they are possible/feasible/cost effective.

I WANT very much to reproduce designs that are thought of by people here on AO but some are just not feasible or practicle for different reasons. All of yours so far fall into this bracket.

I did not want to say this because I do not want to stop you doing design images or working your magic in photoshop, but I do not want you implying that I am not working your images for any other reason than that they are not possible.

I will point out why your images so far are not possible and then hopefully you can think about such points when making subsequent ones.

Firstly they are not completely original. I will not copy or rip off anyone elses work. So far most of your images are based off the SFL design. I will not in any way replicate something that resembles this. It is not professional and I have no intention of doing such. I personally know the guys responsible for that design and it is their hard work. If you wish to work from already made designs may I suggest ones of a standard Extreme would be ideal or any AGD product or any images I have previously posted for these threads or the Fantasy E-mag thread.

Secondly and most importantly your designs are not feasible or machinable for these reasons:-

You are adding material where is none currently. We are not working from scratch we are maching ontop of what is already done. This makes your designs flat out impossible. The only real area of concern here is at the front of the guns in your design. But I get the impression if I tweaked your design then it would go away from your design intent and you wouldn't be happy...

You are creating positive fillets and body shaping in areas where to be able to do so on a current blank would break through the body. Not just through to the valve but through to where the bolt is. In your images you can colour over this, in real life we would be left with a large hole somewhere you do not want it. People may want to see the valve but I think very few want to see the bolt and spring.

Positive fillets can be made in several ways. You can make them with specialised tooling, but in a production enviroment like AGDE have that is a very silly and costly idea. If you make them with special tooling they are best done ONLY in a 2.5D manner, in most cases this looks very planar. If you try and 3D create surfaces from such a fillet they will look forced and you have major tangency issues. i.e. it will look crap in any view other than from the direct side. (designers can often make things look great from one view but have trouble making a 3D part which looks good from all angles).

At the front of your design there is not material to make a fillet with a specialised tool. It would need to be a freeform fillet of variable radiancy (as would the back one in all sensibility). This I can do very easily (if it didn't break through into the bolt and valve area which yours would...) But this is very costly to machine and difficult to machine to get a decent surface finish taking into account machine/tool/setup tolerances. As you machine a freefrom fillet which goes around a 90degree curve as yours do, then you have to pay special attention to how you machine them to get a satisfactory surface finish. This usually means cutting along their isoparamaters (edge boundaries if you like) and this results in costly machine time. It also results in toolpaths which are hard to blend with others cutting the rest of the body shape for the tolerance issues stated above.

Cutting negative fillets is much easier and quicker because you can use the shape of the tool and you can work over 3D surfaces. For instance your battery pack that I like is very possible. AGDE have no tooling that could cut it with positive rads from one level to the next in a sensible time frame. It is possible but the battery pack would be on the machine for a long time and so it is not cost effective or feasible. It would be possible to cut it with negative rads quite easily and although with standard tooling it would cost a lot to machine, with some almost standard tooling it could be done very cost effectively and from the side would look almost identical to the image you produced.

If we have to use non standard tooling or very long mill times this in the real world equates to very costly parts. This means the custom body milling would cost far too much for the market place we are trying to enter. This means it is unrealistic.

If you come up with concept images that are feasible then rest assured I will use them. After all that is what we are using this forum for. But I will not waste my time trying to create things which I can look at and immediately say will not work or will take too long and cost to much to machine.

Hopefully you will take those points and design something that is fantastic and quite possible.

manike

[shartley]

Manike
I would first like to say thank you for the response. Secondly I would like to ask that please try to use a little more tact next time.

But now I will address the issues you made.

This annoys me because you talk as if you know what you are talking about when you obviously do not. I would not tell you what it is possible with photoshop so please do not tell me what is possible in 3D modelling and milling. I suggest we both stick to talking about our respective skills. You make images and I will tell you if they are possible/feasible/cost effective.

And I have perfect faith that if you WANTED to, you could reproduce them.

I WANT very much to reproduce designs that are thought of by people here on AO but some are just not feasible or practicle for different reasons. All of yours so far fall into this bracket.

I did not want to say this because I do not want to stop you doing design images or working your magic in photoshop, but I do not want you implying that I am not working your images for any other reason than that they are not possible.

Firstly they are not completely original. I will not copy or rip off anyone elses work. So far most of your images are based off the SFL design. I will not in any way replicate something that resembles this. It is not professional and I have no intention of doing such. I personally know the guys responsible for that design and it is their hard work. If you wish to work from already made designs may I suggest ones of a standard Extreme would be ideal or any AGD product or any images I have previously posted for these threads or the Fantasy E-mag thread.

Secondly and most importantly your designs are not feasible or machinable for these reasons:-

Lots there, so I will not quote it all. However, you are wrong. I did not add any material where none was to begin with. I also gave no depth requirements for any of the milling. Again, please read my above comments again about the original block of material, and how much you already took off.

I also just looked at the images you posted in your new thread: http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...threadid=21581

[manike]

Shartley I will use tact when you are able to listen to people who know better about something than you do and have the ability to admit when you are wrong. Until then then I will continue to point out where you are incorrect, and why I do not like your implications.

As far as most of the rubbish you posted above I continue to say you do not know what you are talking about. Prove me wrong. Design a body in 3D that can be milled in a sensible and feasible time period and it will be made. Until then stick to talking about what you know.

A thread does not die just because it hasn't been responded to for a few hours. Heck I have to sleep some time! :)

manike

[shartley]

[manike]

Originally posted by shartley

That really is a shame. And I mean it. I'm sorry you act this way when someone doesn't agree with you or proves you wrong.

If you come up with something that will work then I will absolutely take it further.

I do find discussing/debating with you is sometimes like talking about range to a 12yr old with a cocker...

manike

[shartley]

<---- reserving his comments. No place for them on AO.