Crown Point Barrel Discussion

[Dragoon]

AGD, I think this was a good eerie as a bit of a wake-up call to let us all know we should questions what we read on the net (regardless of perceived source). However, I couldn't help but think of the story "Never Cry Wolf" as soon as I started reading this thread.

I haven't checked, but if you haven't deleted the dummy post I think you should. I hate for it to come back at you later.

Douglas.

[BradPalooza]

I tend to agree with Miscue's post that the people that got upset are the one's that blindly accepted it as truth.

The fact of the matter is, there are alot of drones out there. Be they followers of mag, cocker, or angel. For example, how many people are STILL saying that cockers shoot further/straighter/flatter than anything else?

The masses here have the unprecedented opportunity of being able to talk to the President of a paintball company and actually help influence the designs it's products. But to do that, we need to give him valuable feedback. Not just say "Yes Tom, it's perfect".

I say, good job - I hope this helps to get people to start thinking on their own.
-Brad

[bofh]

Originally posted by Dragoon
However, I couldn't help but think of the story "Never Cry Wolf" as soon as I started reading this thread.

Douglas.

Hmmm . I was thinking more along the lines of "The Emperors' New Clothes."

[joeyjoe367]

That's Strange... I was thinking of 3 blind Mice...

[tremis]

I was just waiting for somebody to post that their friend shot them and the end of the barrel with the vents shot off and smashed through his goggles and implanted itself in his sinus cavity. Of course the friend threw the parts away.
Oh I do love this forum.

Tremis

[Butterfingers]

Originally posted by diehard
I agree with Shartley, this is a dangerous game you just played, Tom... But, I think deciding not to buy from AGD is an extreme reaction.

In my opinion there is enough crap in this world that we must wade through to make this little test anything but funny. It is a good lesson. However, I think the motive behind the lesson was dumb. The whole thing was a bad idea to prove a point. You know what you know about AO'ers, Tom, and you shouldn't feel the need to prove anything about them to anyone. Stick to proving your products are what you say they are (in the opinion of most AO'ers, the best). But it did show us a few things. So, in that sense, your test wasn't all bad.

You would've done better to simply tell people on AO that they need to check everything out, even coming from AGD, and not just blindly beleive everything they hear or read. That would've been more consistant with my perception of you and AGD. Just say it straight.

Russ-
Order your flatline, 'cause it's the best. Don't sweat the BS. Don't let this foolishness stand in the way of getting a truely good product. You know that AGD's valves are the best in the business.


You forgot to include the theory of evolution in your list.

If your mom told you not to play on the stairs cause you can fall down and hurt your head would you listen? Now, If you actually fell down and hurt youre head would you listen more?

Alot more people listen more avidly when hey make thier own mistakes. Your mom can say it 15 million times but in the other case it only takes ONE time time to teach you a lesson.

I still think that this was a GREAT learning expereience to all that participated. This should be on display as an example of how EASILY people can get duped by marketing that occurs in the paintball world. This is why I URGE tom to put these 2 posts in the classics.

[manike]

Originally posted by Butterfingers
I still think that this was a GREAT learning expereience to all that participated. This should be on display as an example of how EASILY people can get duped by marketing that occurs in the paintball world.

Is it about people being duped by marketing or by people blindly following Tom and AGD and telling Tom what they think he wants to hear. There is a big difference... He would have gotten a very different result had he posted the same thread on another board unrelated to AGD. Here I'd say 30-40 percent were prepared to comment against him, nearly 50% went with him (just guestimates) elsewhere I would have said 90% would have gone "shut up your full of crap..." I do think if we only look at this board then we are not seeing a true cross section of the market. That is dangerous and what I think this was all about. It wasn't to try a new marketing approach. Tom himself hinted it wasn't in his reply to Shartley.

What if he wasn't marketing a product (and not one we where so many of us obviously new something was up). What if it was a new idea or design and people rather than questioning it, just said 'yeah Tom great I will buy one'... But never did. It's happened with the Z-grip. People say they are desperate for them, 10 turn up and then take 6 months to sell (or something like that). There is more than one way to see what all this is about and what just happened. You need to keep your eyes wide open and be wary at all times.

manike

[Russ]

Just to perhaps clarify a few things...

A) I feel the "joke" Tom played was rude.

B) Superbolts were released for sale before they should've been. 'Nuff said.

C) I choose not to buy a 4500 Flatline because I do not want to be the "Crash Test Dummy". They may work fine, they may have "issues". Ill let someone else find that out.I have less than 100% faith in the product. I will wait and see how they perform in the real world before I fork out the $400 for one. That's my choice. I'm not doing it to "punish" AGD. I'm just trying to get a good reliable product for my $$$.

[cphilip]

Right on Manike!

People... Tom needs your real thoughts not just agreement and suck up. On this site there is far too much of that. Don't be afraid to be skeptical and be different. And for heavens sakes quit crucifying the ones who do! Far too much of that. Disagree with tact and logic. But for God sakes have your own mind about things!

I will repeat my comment to the other Mods yesterday that was in sarcastic intent "...I plan to beg and beg for one and then never buy one...:)" This indeed happens all the time here.

And from what I saw Manikes statistics are a good estimate. So what good are we to AGD if we go along with everything as gospel? Not much I fear. No..I personally do not think Toms method was as effective as he had hoped nor would I have chosen it. But perhaps in the long run? He might turn out to have caused something to happen that needed too. I am optimistic.

Think about it.

[Paintchucker]

Singing Barrels???

I guess the old saying of let the buyer beware holds true, and always will. My thought was that if this barrel was really that good, they never would have changed the design in the first place. What was BFL for anyway? I was guessing Bold Face Lyers. :)

Anywho, I was playing around with some stuff. I just bought an Emag, so I am selling off some of my other guns. I am selling my retro valve, so I pulled out my early 1990's minimag valve and put the matching foamie bolt in it. I notice that it has a high pitch ring to it that no longer exists in the newer bolts. So is the singing crown point barrel really available? I was considering getting one just for the heck of it. You get strange looks from other players wondering what that sound is. LOL...

[the JoKeR]

Originally posted by cphilip
So what good are we to AGD if we go along with everything as gospel

You mean there's no "special" KoolAid in this cult? I'm turning in my robe!

Marketing can be evil! Welcome to my world.....

[FaSSt]

I was initially a little mystified and disturbed by the thread.

Then I realized that the basic problem, as eventually demonstrated by the thread, has nothing to do with Tom Kaye, AGD, or even paintball. Instead, the problem stems from the basic inability of most people to read and think CRITICALLY. Evaluate everything, regardless of the source. Young people generally have not yet full learned this lesson yet, but older readers have no excuse for not being able to identify what was going on.

If you read carefully, you could eventually tell that this was something other than a "normal", factual thread - there was too much rambling, too many issues were skirted, and quite a few provocative statements were thrown around.

In summary - the whole thing was mildly amusing but definitely not malicious. If anything, I think that Tom Kaye actually demonstrated (by creating a parody of their statements) the contempt with which some companies treat their consumers.

I do disagree with Tom Kaye, however. I DO believe that many, many people are VERY DESERVING OF CONTEMPT, because they fail to learn the basic skills necessary to separate truth from lies. Even young adults are included in this - for instance, if some of them actually cared about learning Math, Physics, Philosophy or English (so that they can read critically), they would not be the dumb, easily-influencable consumers and people that they are. You know who you are.

Lastly, there is a very real downside to being "acessible" as the top guy in an organization - sometimes familiarity detracts from the respect people treat you with. You military guys know that there is a reason officers and enlisted men are not supposed to hang out together too much.

This is a paintball website, people. If your sense of self-worth is iseriously mpacted by anything that is said here, you have problems.

[MantisMag]

i'm surprised noone has considered this. what if this "test" had some ulterior motive? was there really dinner with Swarm? or is that just a fiction created to hide the truth? perhaps tom is preparing for AGD's takeover of the world. he needs to see who can be trusted in here. rest assured that each post was looked at very carefully and names were taken down. tom needs to know who can be truted to be his lieutenants and who are his mindless drones. soon my friends. soon. our time is coming. muahahaha.

[diehard]

Originally Posted by Butterfingers
...Alot more people listen more avidly when hey make thier own mistakes. Your mom can say it 15 million times but in the other case it only takes ONE time time to teach you a lesson.

I still think that this was a GREAT learning expereience to all that participated.

I agree with you butterfingers, as I said in my post, it is a good lesson. However, in keeping with your analogy, there is a difference between a mom letting a kid fall down the stairs and a mom who pushed her kid down the stairs. You wouldn't trust your mom if she pushed you. However, if she told you the truth, that you may fall and hurt yourself, and you did it anyways... then yes, you would learn your lesson, and also your respect for your mother would greatly increase and you may even listen to her next time.

I think the whole analogy is off, 'cause this issue isn't that important. But it just has to do with truth and trust.
BONESisAgod lied, probably for fun... Tom lied to prove a point. Both lies cost people a little respect and a little money. The moral of the story is keep the BS to yourself and just be honest and straightforward.

[Miscue]

Originally posted by FaSSt
I was initially a little mystified and disturbed by the thread.

Then I realized that the basic problem, as eventually demonstrated by the thread, has nothing to do with Tom Kaye, AGD, or even paintball. Instead, the problem stems from the basic inability of most people to read and think CRITICALLY. ....*Insert long post here*....

This is a paintball website, people. If your sense of self-worth is iseriously mpacted by anything that is said here, you have problems.

Oooh... My thoughts EXACTLY. People are unnecessarily applying emotional attachment to what's been said - and are basing their criticisms here. They fall before reaching a point of understanding... let alone a proper deconstruction of what's been said, and all resulting opinions are verily worthless and ignorable as far as paper-and-pencil reasoning is concerned - if you want to go so far. If you are versed in the constructs of formal logic, rhetoric becomes readily distinguished... and intentions discernable. If that is beyond one's capacity, the point is lost... which seems to be the closely defended battlement of these critics.

TK is guilty of no malice, the perceived fault lies elsewhere...