the industry is depending on you! how many bps?

[deadbox101]

Unlimited.

If your getting there on your own it should be allowed, no cheater modes or anything to add to your BPS. but having a BPS cap is taking skill out of the game. Sure you say it will make people move more, get angles, etc. However your forgetting about the people that can get high BPS legally THAT should have that as an advantage. Just like moving, snapping and communication trigger walking is another skill to advance in paintball.

[Lohman446]

Unlimited.

If your getting there on your own it should be allowed, no cheater modes or anything to add to your BPS. but having a BPS cap is taking skill out of the game. Sure you say it will make people move more, get angles, etc. However your forgetting about the people that can get high BPS legally THAT should have that as an advantage. Just like moving, snapping and communication trigger walking is another skill to advance in paintball.

But there is a limit even in NASCAR, enforced through a series of "body design" rules and engine restrictions what is so wrong with limiting paintball?

I mean, I'm all for no limit as long as we have minimal trigger pull lengths and weights, easily checked for and a way to stop bounce and techno-cheats.

[WenULiVeUdiE]

Unlimited. No ramping or other cheat modes. If only the NPPL could do a better job of catching cheaters.

[deadbox101]

But there is a limit even in NASCAR, enforced through a series of "body design" rules and engine restrictions what is so wrong with limiting paintball?

I mean, I'm all for no limit as long as we have minimal trigger pull lengths and weights, easily checked for and a way to stop bounce and techno-cheats.

Because it takes away from part of the game. We're not talking about nascar here this is about paintball. In paintball the ability to shoot more paint then someone else is a skill and something that can improved. We shouldnt have modes to help us but when a fast trigger walker comes along they should be able to use there ability to the fullest extent.

[Lohman446]

Because it takes away from part of the game. We're not talking about nascar here this is about paintball. In paintball the ability to shoot more paint then someone else is a skill and something that can improved. We shouldnt have modes to help us but when a fast trigger walker comes along they should be able to use there ability to the fullest extent.

And in NASCAR The ability to drive faster than anyone else would be a skill. So woudl the ability to build a car that could. Do we really want paintball to be more and more about the technology. Limit the speed, allow technological help to get there and the game becomes about a skill that involves more than two fingers.

[VFX_Fenix]

With limited ROF serries I believe they should allow a shot buffer due to the way the PCB logic "times" shots. If a trigger pull falls between sampling windows the shot is effectively lost despite a trigger pull occuring. That's my feeling anyway... semi 15bps w/ Shot buffer (Millenium rules)

[deadbox101]

And in NASCAR The ability to drive faster than anyone else would be a skill. So woudl the ability to build a car that could. Do we really want paintball to be more and more about the technology. Limit the speed, allow technological help to get there and the game becomes about a skill that involves more than two fingers.

Yea but walking the trigger is just another part of the game. Sure its not the whole thing but it makes a difference. And i dont think some of you people realize that not just pump or mech players get angles or have skill. so why would having eveyone shoot the same speed be a good idea???

[Lohman446]

Yea but walking the trigger is just another part of the game. Sure its not the whole thing but it makes a difference. And i dont think some of you people realize that not just pump or mech players get angles or have skill. so why would having eveyone shoot the same speed be a good idea???

I play tournaments... so don't take this wrong. It annoys me that one of the skills that determines a winner in this great game is how fast one can mvoe there fingers. I mean... if you didn't know anythign about paintball would you be surprised at how many players think its some great skill...


Further I think it is overhyped. Shoot as fast as you want, as your worrying about how fast you get otehrs are doing other things... I think capping it would just put an end to all the sillyness (IMHO) that goes around wiht trying to shoot XXXXBPS

[Maggot6]

I think that it should be capped at 16 bps. BUT there is no ramping or anything. Because most people don't walk 16 bps consistenly no matter what they say. Plus if you can get 16 during a game, then that's pretty good.

[mercury]

Unlimited bps...but straight semi only. No ramping, etc. If you can shoot that fast on your own, then so be it.

[deadbox101]

I play tournaments... so don't take this wrong. It annoys me that one of the skills that determines a winner in this great game is how fast one can mvoe there fingers. I mean... if you didn't know anythign about paintball would you be surprised at how many players think its some great skill...


Further I think it is overhyped. Shoot as fast as you want, as your worrying about how fast you get otehrs are doing other things... I think capping it would just put an end to all the sillyness (IMHO) that goes around wiht trying to shoot XXXXBPS

All im saying is if you can get a higher speed then someone else it should be legal. Im not trying to say it makes you a pro if you can walk a trigger. I just think its an advantage some should have and a disadvantage to others they should have to overcome.

[Lohman446]

All im saying is if you can get a higher speed then someone else it should be legal. Im not trying to say it makes you a pro if you can walk a trigger. I just think its an advantage some should have and a disadvantage to others they should have to overcome.

I understand what your saying, let me make a couple assertions here

A) The difference between shooting 10BPS (what I think 99% of people actually shoot in game) or 18BPS (what so many claim to shoot in game) is going to have minimal impact on the game. Although I will grant it is a developed skill to shoot this fast I think its effect on game outcome is overstated.

B) If we capped it we could get rid of the "argument" about this skill and people honing this skill and thinking it is all important. As I assert it does not have a big effect on game outcome I think its just ridiculous to hear about.

I would like to see an alternative to limiting BPS. Unless scientific study using quantitative data from a controlled environment indicates high rate of fire is dangerous I assert that a high ROF really does not matter. I do beleive in three semi pulls in a second before "anything" goes to avoid accidental non-game discharges that are more dangerous than a single discharge. I also beleive in minimal trigger pull and lengths for the same reason - and if you had ramping or full auto after three pulls would it matter really? To offset this I think that events should be limited paint. Either for the entire event or per game. IF it were you are allowed three pods (or whatever, I arbitrarily picked that number) per player per game and the pods must fit inside this "pod size testing device" - (patent pending - yeh right) looking for cheats would be a lot simpler in my mind.

[Beemer]

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=160827

Now I know many of you aren't too worried about your fellow competitors. That if you shoot him 25 times, that's his bad luck. Many of you aren't aware that at the CFOA finale at Rock Hill, that there was a player who was bunkered by a ramping gun at point blank range in the head. The player who did the shooting was not malicious in his actions, but the quick pulls of the trigger did produce 6 shots to the mask of the player who got bunkered. Those 6 shots at that range broke the unaltered Profiler of the player who was bunkered. We were lucky and no injury occurred. Only the player who got his bell rung and had to buy some new goggles was the worse for wear.

Have to look at the big pic here. It can and will happen again, eather on the tourny or rec field.

B) If we capped it we could get rid of the "argument" about this skill and people honing this skill and thinking it is all important. As I assert it does not have a big effect on game outcome I think its just ridiculous to hear about.

If you believe this then why is 1 shot 1 pull not good enough? Then if youre fast you fall into the minority.

Unless scientific study using quantitative data from a controlled environment indicates high rate of fire is dangerous I assert that a high ROF really does not matter.

Have to go Way back to the SMG here. Why was it banned again?

[Lohman446]

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=160827

Have to look at the big pic here. It can and will happen again, eather on the tourny or rec field.




If you believe this then why is 1 shot 1 pull not good enough? Then if youre fast you fall into the minority.



Have to go Way back to the SMG here. Why was it banned again?

ASTM standards are woefully out of date. That being said unless you have a scientifically supported industry based standard to support the overriding of ASTM standards the non-complaince of them most definetly will put you in defiance of civil negligence statutes. I would go as far to assert that defiance of these standards may put you in an unfavorable position with criminal statutes.

You're right on this in a way. My statement was essentially you prove to me that what we are doing is unsafe. I'm wrong on this. The statement needs to be prove to me, scientifically in both theory and controlled experiment that what we are doing is safe.

I was unaware of, or had forgotten about the profiler incident when I made my statement. I am sure I saw it somewhere at one time but... well like I said it was simply not considered in my statement.

We, myself included, are pushing the envelope too fast. When we say "well prove this is not safe" we are wrong. If we are implementing things that our own safety standards indicate are unnacceptable then we need to prove they are safe, the burden is on us, not the opponents.

As for the rate of fire cap.. I'd like to see it. That way I can quit hearing people trying to impress me in the staging area "I fired 18 BPS that game from beginning until I was eliminated" "I fired 18 balls all game.. and eliminated you "

[Bolter]

Probably, but a warp with a revy on it is really no faster than a revy on top of the marker.

But just to be safe, I say outlaw them too. (I'm just messing with ya)

Er....wrong, the warp feeds faster than some of the early Halos. And it feeds far more consistently.