Female Paintball "Stars": The Ultimate Poser?

[tsc]

d'oh!

tsc: just to steer in a new direction, do you think a stronger performing, all-female team on the national amateur level would encourage more ladies to play, with commitment, at our* level of play?

*our meaning basically what Brian said: AO events, walk-on with friends, occasional regional tourny

Nope. Not unless the attitudes of people at our level changed-- Which, I think, is alot harder than just getting a good female team. People don't like to have to change, period. I think for a very long time, the comments would be "Well, she's not as good as Team XXXXX, that's for sure." Or "Hah, she's not even on an Am team, how can she be good?".

Alot of it is ingrained-- guys don't like to be beaten by girls.

Plus...it's still an icky nasty sport. You get HURT. You're sore for days afterwards. You get bloody bruises that leave scars. You love every second of it, but it still is a crappy way to spend your Monday, looking like a really bad herpes case.. The majority of girls out there don't 'do' icky nasty.

The commitment part is big too. That takes a certain kind of person, and as everyone at our level knows...it's not easy sometimes, to be commited. All of your stuff breaks, you keep getting hit 4 seconds into the game, some days you can't even play because of how crappy your paint/gear/mask is. It gets pretty damn frustrating sometimes. Add this ontop of the feeling that absolutely no one wants you there...yeah. Like I said, it all goes back to the attitudes changing, and even if there was a strong, honest female team, the attitudes would stay the way they are for a long time.


It's true...you look at a female team playing, and they all look great at the break, amble over to their bunkers....and stay there for the rest of the game. It's confusing! And when one member is eliminated...they don't move to fill her ho--er, spot. They leave a big gap which obviously needs to be covered. I *though* that constantly moving forward was one of the fundamental things in paintball.

And yeah, it does take a certain amount of aggression-- and none of you gimmie this "LOL PMS LOL" stuff either-- which is for some girls impossible. However, I think it can be taught easily-- show them that the more agressive they are...the more they win. Everyone likes to win, it's one hell of a motivator.

[SCpoloRicker]

Plus...it's still an icky nasty sport. You get HURT. You're sore for days afterwards. You get bloody bruises that leave scars. You love every second of it, but it still is a crappy way to spend your Monday, looking like a really bad herpes case.. The majority of girls out there don't 'do' icky nasty.

The commitment part is big too. That takes a certain kind of person, and as everyone at our level knows...it's not easy sometimes, to be commited. All of your stuff breaks, you keep getting hit 4 seconds into the game, some days you can't even play because of how crappy your paint/gear/mask is. It gets pretty damn frustrating sometimes. Add this ontop of the feeling that absolutely no one wants you there...yeah. Like I said, it all goes back to the attitudes changing, and even if there was a strong, honest female team, the attitudes would stay the way they are for a long time.

This almost feels like you don't think most women "can hack it." I'm probably misinterpreting; but just in case, I've had my nose broken by an 18 yr old girl when I was 22 at polo practice. They spent just as much time in the pool, hit the weight room, and beat the crap outta people. Commitment is up to an individual, and money.

A general attitude problem, on both sides, sure. But I think this is more a matter of exposure and attitudes than any sort of gender issue.

I believe lohman said something to this effect: 'ROI should be the sole factor for a firms Marketing Director. If I had to pick a team to expose my products, get press, and build hype, I'd build a team of hot girls too.' Its a good point.

[Target Practice]

I believe lohman said something to this effect: 'ROI should be the sole factor for a firms Marketing Director. If I had to pick a team to expose my products, get press, and build hype, I'd build a team of hot girls too.' Its a good point.

It seems that everyone is missing the point. This statement is fine. There is nothing wrong with using sex to sell your products. There IS something wrong about saying that a promo team who's main job is to sell products is the same as a real, honest to god team that plays for the fun and joy of the game.

[SCpoloRicker]

As a riposte: The reason that a top pro team receive sponsorship from manufacturers is they are a "real, honest to god team that plays for the fun and joy of the game"?

Or is it because they think players will purchase their gear after seeing "Team X" using it in a magazine or DVD?

I can understand your complaint from the players side; but from the manufacturer's side, sales are sales, and sex appeal is an easy way to penetrate this (young, male) audience.

They may not be a great example of "team," but they are a good example of "sponsorship."

[tsc]

This almost feels like you don't think most women "can hack it." I'm probably misinterpreting; but just in case, I've had my nose broken by an 18 yr old girl when I was 22 at polo practice. They spent just as much time in the pool, hit the weight room, and beat the crap outta people. Commitment is up to an individual, and money.

That's exactly what I'm saying.

It's true.

If it wasn't, there'd be more female players.

[Lohman446]

Lets discuss return on investment - I have three hypothetical teams that I have a chance to sponsor. All three teams will compete in division 2 for now.

Team A is a traditional male team. They are all from the same area, they practice together on a reasonable basis, and they work well together. Given four years or so, if kept together, they will be able to move to Div 1 and compete.

Team B is a lot like team A, except that they are composed of "non-cover girl" material women of equal skill to team A and equal chance of succeeding.

Teacm C is a group of "cover-girl" material woman. They have no place in Division 2, come from all over the country and will likely get rolled while playing. However, we will have posters made up of them in less than paintball gear and holding one of our products?

Which team, is going to maximize the investment? What if I make it a little different. What if I'm Dye playing at Chicago and I can take a competetive team, like the Ironmen or someone and put a spokesmodel on the side in X-ball as a coach. Now apparently this spokesmodels job is to jump up and down as much as coach... but how many people do you think will note her? I was there last year... she had a lot of attention and her bouncing up and down... well appeared planned. This was a comibination of sex and paintball, which I think we are going to see. I would not be surprised to see a "cover-girl" player on established teams (Strange / Dynasty) playing only occassionally but being a very visible presence. Combining the two marketting strategies of winning and sex.

[Lohman446]

What about paintball favors men?

There is no phyiscal contact by the rules.

Are men naturally more aggressive? Sure.. but its a trained response in paintball. I mean look at most new players.. they hide behind bunkers.

Are men quicker? How much does speed really matter... yes men may be naturally quicker (I don't even know that) but we are not pushing the edges of physique in paintball at this point.

My point is, there is no reason that a good female team could not be put together, however those putting together female teams seem more concerned about selling based on sex than putting a real team together. Then again, selling based on sex works as better than all but the best of winning teams, at least in my opinion without looking at numbers that the companies hold.

[gc82000]

I will lose a lot of respect for a team to add a "covermodel" to their roster just so they can have that little amount of sex appeal. Let's take Dynasty for example, they are the number one team after Huntington Beach and they are a team that wants to stay number one for as long as possible. Adding a Cover girl to that team might make them look like they are just trying to be all about the money. If teams really wanted to add sex appeal to their team without losing respect as players they should ask for cheerleaders. Hell it wont hurt them as a team and they would never even have to play a single game and never have to wear the all to cumbersome PB gear.

The female stars you are talking about are stars and divas in this industry, but nothing more. To me and many of my friends they are just attractive distraction to the testosterone saturated world called Paintball. I dont think of them as true players but I have respect for them simply for the fact that they are willing to get shot and bruised for cash.

[Lohman446]

Let's take Dynasty for example, they are the number one team after Huntington Beach and they are a team that wants to stay number one for as long as possible.

Dynasty walked away from the sponsor that helped them get to number one a couple years ago. To me, it was about the money then. Personally I make no judgement on it, but I think it does prove a distinct point that Dynasty is in it for the $$

[tyrion2323]

Target Practice - maybe you should spend a bit more time worrying about yourself and less time complaining about a problem that doesn't affect you.

Or...

Perhaps the reason that women avoid paintball and never get the attention they deserve is because of attitudes like yours...

[Lohman446]

Target Practice - maybe you should spend a bit more time worrying about yourself and less time complaining about a problem that doesn't affect you.

Or...

Perhaps the reason that women avoid paintball and never get the attention they deserve is because of attitudes like yours...

Because the purpose of this board is to discuss issues in paintball. Judging by the replies to this thread it is an issue in paintball. And I think you will find this issue effects TP more directly than you would think at first glance.

[Target Practice]

Target Practice - maybe you should spend a bit more time worrying about yourself and less time complaining about a problem that doesn't affect you.

Or...

Perhaps the reason that women avoid paintball and never get the attention they deserve is because of attitudes like yours...

Well, considering my girlfriend (who has been playing almost twice as long as me, and who can whomp me six ways from Sunday) is looked down upon and her skills are flat out ignored everytime we go to the field, I'd say this affects me.

Please, elaborate on how my attitudes make "women avoid paintball and never get the attention they deserve". Did you even read what I've been saying? I want the women players who deserve respect to get it, based on skills and game, not because they happen to have boobs and are holding a marker.

[SCpoloRicker]

On physical differences, or, women can't play at the same level as men:

Ever notice that a lot of paintball players are overweight? I know at the top levels this may self-select itself out, but we're not the fittest breed...

I also like the issue posed by Lohman about which of three teams is best for a manufacturer. IMO, as the amount of women playing seriously, but casually (like tsc, or other AO'ers not on tourney squads) increases; option 2, a competitive, local female team will become a more viable option.

Right now, there aren't enough female players in the game to support investment in competitive female teams.

[Target Practice]

The female stars you are talking about are stars and divas in this industry, but nothing more. To me and many of my friends they are just attractive distraction to the testosterone saturated world called Paintball. I dont think of them as true players but I have respect for them simply for the fact that they are willing to get shot and bruised for cash.

Exactly. For example, at our shop, we had a poster of an Empire girl right next to the front door, which was always open. She wasn't much of a looker, but people didn't look at her face.... Anyhoo, that poster brought in more guys then I don't know what.

As I've said, this is fine. We made sales. But, don't give them the respect that you would give to real paintballers, because they're not.

[gc82000]

Dynasty walked away from the sponsor that helped them get to number one a couple years ago. To me, it was about the money then. Personally I make no judgement on it, but I think it does prove a distinct point that Dynasty is in it for the $$

I knew someone was gonna bring that up. Okay Dyantsty did go for the sponsor ship to change guns, but during that time they were usin IR3s which weren't that fast (accurate and durable yes but not fast enough). Especially when being compared to timmys, trixies and at the time Shockers.
But I have been hearing rumors that Dynasty ight change their sponsorship yet again after their contract is up. dont take my word for it.

TP i think i know tha poster you are talking about, my friend has on in his shops bathroom.