Female Paintball "Stars": The Ultimate Poser?

[CoolHand]

I think it's not so much as respect as it's an attempt to not be made fools of. Respect would be admitting to her/anyone, "Damn, you/she plays a pretty good game. We're gonna have to look out for you/her." Does this ever get said? Hell no.

Well, look at it this way: If you're not going to be respected in the traditional sense, then you might as well be feared.

The more they call you names, the more you've gotten over on them. People generally don't talk smack to folks they don't know, unless they are scared (or have anger problems, a la Joe Peccie "You talkin' to me?")

The more noise they make, the more impact you are having on them.

If you're going to play with *** holes (and it appears from reading that you do), then you might have to settle for fear instead, 'cause their very nature won't let them be good sports to you.

I would suggest finding new folks to play with.

[shadowspar]

You might as well get used to it, 'cause until the target group isn't 13-25 yr old males, there will be scantly clad women pushing gear, and female teams playing at the pro level, solely for the sake of their ambiance.

I think that this is true, with the exception that this mindset isn't limited to 13-25 year olds. It's a sad statement on the current state of male attitudes.

I get quite insulted when I see paintball companies trying to use sex appeal to sell their junk, because the message they're sending is that they think I'm a sexist and an idiot. When I see a Kingman ad featuring a bikini-clad blonde, the message I get is "We think that you'll forget that our 'guns are cheap junk if we wave some breasts in front of your face." When I see Smart Parts plastering `Smart Girls' all over their stuff, they're telling me "We think that you are more effectively persuaded to buy things by images of scantily-clad women than by a product's technical merits."

As an aside on SP, notice the subtly sexist statement at the bottom of their products page:

girl gear
Do yourself a favor and buy your girl something cool.

Yeah, because if I'm browsing their webpage, I obviously couldn't be a girl who plays paintball, could I?

[CoolHand]

OK, with TSC I can see why she gets grumpy, what with being verbally abused, cheated against, and being generally regarded with the sort of disdain normally reserved for stray dogs. I understand why she is miffed.

Now, you on the other hand (shadowspar in case someone sneaks a post in between us) just need to grow a bit thicker skin. If SP's website insults you, don't go there. If you don't like PB ads in their current form, buy from companies who don't do it.

Guys have always, and will always like to look at women, especially hot nearly naked ones. Just 'cause you don't like it, does not mean it will go away. We are not pigs for doing so, we are men. It is in our nature to want women. You can't fight that. Marketing folks realize this, and push the button as often as they can. Some of us display more tact than others when dealing with these images (IE we ogle discreetly, when other women are around), but every heterosexual male is effected by this sort of thing in much the same way.

Also, in the defence of "Get over it", Hypersensivity is just another of the maladies which conspire to limit our perception of the female sex. If you (women that is) want to be taken seriously, you have to learn to deal with situations and words that you don't like. Insisting that everyone stop doing the things you don't like, instead of simply ignoring them, is PC at its worst, and does no good for the person or group making the insistance.

Case in point: Demanding that men stop looking at sexy girls (especially when they dress they way they do, which I have been told is to make men look at them), is counter to nature, and a loosing battle at best. At worst, all that flap and complaining over things that make no difference, lends a certain frivolity to your other issues that you can ill afford when trying to make a strong point.

[matt-o]

id have to say that if girls want to do well in the game they can, and its all about what they want. to generalize all girl PBers into one group isnt fair. ive met a few that play simply because they love to play ball, though i do have to say that they werent all that cute and thus not photo material. sadly i have to say that girls getting into top level teams (and then doing well and being taken seriously) isnt as easy as it would be for guys because if they are hot they would immidiately be put into a all girls team where they would constanly do photoshoots instead of practice. but if they are ugly they arent going to get onto those all female teams and wpuld tryout for a mostly male team, and as sad as it is to say it goes back to middleschool where we picked the strongest looking guys first. but in this case we woudnt be picking the ugly girls. like i said there are lots of good girl painbtallers out there. the first name that came to mind was bea youngs but i am sure there are others im not thinking about.

also is clare gonna step in and say anything here?

[SCpoloRicker]

also is clare gonna step in and say anything here?

Doubt it. Also. There's a button next to the ' key. It makes lines
do
this.

tsc: is it really surprising that, after getting worked, players with attitude (PWA?) refuse to acknowledge their defeat? I would think this is a similar response that a (male)camo-clad mag shooter would get at a lot of fields these days. Sort of a "couldn't have happened" response...

[JoshK]

Take 10-15 pretty women

Tell that to some of the members of femme fatales

But seriously...I never really pay attention to tourny ball...buy I have seen pictures...and usually they do look good during the time of the pictures...probly exactly like you said it...but I dont know.

P.S. the main body of this post was in responce of the first post...I dont have my whole night to waste away reading all the responces.

[shadowspar]

OK, with TSC I can see why she gets grumpy, what with being verbally abused, cheated against, and being generally regarded with the sort of disdain normally reserved for stray dogs. I understand why she is miffed.

Now, you on the other hand (shadowspar in case someone sneaks a post in between us) just need to grow a bit thicker skin. If SP's website insults you, don't go there. If you don't like PB ads in their current form, buy from companies who don't do it.

Exactly, and that's what I do. (Well...not the not going to the website part, but I don't buy from Kingman or Smart Parts. Or Brass Eagle, JT, Viewloader, Ronin Gear, or KAPP for that matter.)

Guys have always, and will always like to look at women, especially hot nearly naked ones. Just 'cause you don't like it, does not mean it will go away. We are not pigs for doing so, we are men. It is in our nature to want women. You can't fight that. Marketing folks realize this, and push the button as often as they can.

Indeed. I just wonder why I'm the only one that finds it objectionable -- not in some kind of moralizing `OMG, a half-naked woman!' kind of way, but on an intellectual level. It's much the same when somebody tries to sell you a product in any sort of way that's not based on reasoned persuasion -- anything from fear ("You are going to be a social outcast if you don't buy our stuff") to image-based ads ("Dynasty uses our Paintball Performance Underwear, so it must be the best!"). I'm not saying there's some draconian way to put an end to it all, or that that's even desirable. What I am saying is that I'm mystified as to why more people don't seem to see it for what it is -- blatant appeals to emotion to make you buy something.

Some of us display more tact than others when dealing with these images (IE we ogle discreetly, when other women are around), but every heterosexual male is effected by this sort of thing in much the same way.

You can't control who (what) you're attracted to. You can control what you do about it. The `looking at sexy girls' thing is a bit much to dig into here, so I'll only gloss over it. Suffice it to say that a) sexuality is a part of life, and b) there's a way to do things that's respectful, and a way that's not.

Also, in the defence of "Get over it", Hypersensivity is just another of the maladies which conspire to limit our perception of the female sex. If you (women that is) want to be taken seriously, you have to learn to deal with situations and words that you don't like. Insisting that everyone stop doing the things you don't like, instead of simply ignoring them, is PC at its worst, and does no good for the person or group making the insistance.

You can't force everyone to think the same way as you do; that's draconian. And, just as surely, you can't force people to act in a civilized manner, but nor should you have to ignore disrespect and tolerate it in silence. If somebody does something that I think is out of line, I don't have to just suck it up (though I often suffer fools more gladly than I should.) I can, should, and will take appropriate action to remedy the problem, though -- that's also my right. If someone's not reprimanded or sanctioned for behaviour that's out of line, that's an implicit green light for it to continue.

At the core, I'm more concerned with attitudes that underlie behaviours than individual instances of the behaviours in question. I can't understand why there has to be such a persistent gender divide across all topics and thinking. For instance, if a woman is playing paintball, the question "Why is she playing?" doesn't pop into my head any more than it would for a guy. Both women and men are diverse individuals, and I think in the end the differences between individuals are far more significant than any differences between genders. Or, as one of my favourite buttons puts it: "Men are from Earth. Women are from Earth. Deal with it." =)

[Alley]

Alley, I would guess there aren't many spokesmodels on this board... I'm not gonna even touch the "you're just jealous comment."

Well, my guess is if they are getting oogled on the field and not called names, they must be something worth looking at right?
I mean it was just a statement for those who play for the reason of attention. But, I suppose that makes me ugly and jealous right?

[Lohman446]

Exactly, and that's what I do. (Well...not the not going to the website part, but I don't buy from Kingman or Smart Parts. Or Brass Eagle, JT, Viewloader, Ronin Gear, or KAPP for that matter.)

Lets keep adding to those who have used sex to sell things: Empire, Dye, AGD, WDP... oh and outside of paintball: nearly every beer company, Chevy, Ford, Chrysler, BMW... I'm sure there are more. So what company in paintball do you buy from that does not use women and the "explotation of women" to help sell there product?

[Clare]

I've noticed a couple wondering why I hadn't replied so I'm sorry for my late response, but I don't monitor these boards 24/7. I was asked to be AGD's spokesmodel but was never treated as such by fellow paintballers. I've never come across any negative treatment in the tournament scene as a paintball player. I've played with several male teams and still do and they treat me like one of the guys because they know I can hold my own. I play because I love to play..and nothing else.

As for Empress...they play because they love to play and compete in paintball. The team pays for pretty much everything. Despite loss after loss, every girl is willing to shell out hundreds of dollars every tournament to give it their all. I know these girls (obviously) and they don't do it for the attention. No one is paid to do anything. I can say the same for the femmes. They have a sponsorship deal but they still have to pay to be there..

I've read all of these comments and some of them are ridiculous. I like how some people pretend to know what they're talking about.

[CoolHand]

Once again, another person I agree with a great deal. This has been a good discussion.

I'm glad I wandered onto this thread.

I see the ads for what they are, but it doesn't stop me from admiring the pretty girls, or the gear they are holding.

Does that make me buy the stuff in question? Nah, usually not. I am not very suceptable to advertising. Engineering school has made me immune to it, more or less (that or my crooked outlook).

You are right that a person's suceptability to various types of advertising is dependant more on their maturity and state of mind than gender. However, marketing folks traffic in generalizations (they have to), and generally speaking, the 13-21 yr old male thinks with the wrong head most of the time. Its a fact of life, and they know this. Since that's their taget demographic, we get the ad schemes we have now.

There is nothing we can do about it, short of changing the way a large group of people thinks (which ain't gonna happen), so we've just got to set back and watch it, ignore it, or get along with it.

[Lohman446]

You are right that a person's suceptability to various types of advertising is dependant more on their maturity and state of mind than gender. However, marketing folks traffic in generalizations (they have to), and generally speaking, the 13-21 yr old male thinks with the wrong head most of the time. it.

Lets take marketing and generalize a little further in demographics. 18-25 year old males . There tending towards impulse spending, and a general use of general income, makes them very appealing to marketers. You know why the show Married with Children was allowed to run despite complaints to the network and less than impressive ratings? Those ratings showed they were getting the 18-25 year old males.

Paintball targets this group heavily as well - and younger. And like it or not sex sells, especially to 14-25 year old males, in general at least.

[SCpoloRicker]

Well, my guess is if they are getting oogled on the field and not called names, they must be something worth looking at right?
I mean it was just a statement for those who play for the reason of attention. But, I suppose that makes me ugly and jealous right?

I'm afraid I don't know what you are trying to say here...

Clare I was unaware that Empress had such little funding support. Changes my views of the team a large amount.

[matt-o]

oh, dont suck up to clare

[shadowspar]

Lets keep adding to those who have used sex to sell things: Empire, Dye, AGD, WDP... oh and outside of paintball: nearly every beer company, Chevy, Ford, Chrysler, BMW... I'm sure there are more. So what company in paintball do you buy from that does not use women and the "explotation of women" to help sell there product?

You're quite right when you say that this kind of advertising is very prominent in the paintball industry, as well in the wider world. At this point, I'm reminded of a truism that figures very prominently in my line of work:

All software sucks. All hardware sucks. Our job is to pick the stuff that sucks the least, and make the best of it.

So what do I do? I try to pick the companies that suck the least. Sometimes I may miss something, but I try to do my best. Who do I buy from? My marker is a Phantom VSC, from CCI. Mask is a VForce Morph. As far as I know, neither never done any bikini-babe advertising, though I haven't seen any of VForce's print ads. Who else...I recall from an old issue of Paintball magazine that Xtreme Paintball Park, NWPP, Unique, Air America, J&J, Tippmann and Scott sponsored an all-female tournament, so that's props to them in my book. Also, ACI is one of the few companies I've ever seen that has fully-clothed women in their ads. (Women being portrayed as paintball players! Imagine the shock!) I'm sure I've missed something, and that some of them have done some scantily-clad-chick stuff in the past, though.

Just because it's common doesn't mean I have to like it. Sure narrows the field a lot when you try to take it seriously, though.

(BTW, on the rare occasions when I drink North American beer, it's usually Sleeman's or Alexander Keith's, both have which have effective commercials without bar babes. If you ever get a chance, you should check out Japanese beer commercials -- they're hillarious.)