2005 Tampa Pro tour

[Lohman446]

I know that i will will most definately be banned me for this. Hence the new screen name.

I just wanted everyone to know that I am pi$$ed that there was NO I mean ZERO mag support at the tampa show.

Not a single booth. They handed out free magazines that rated all of the new markers and of course AGD had the Pro Classic advertised.

AGD is finished at the tourney scene. I now know this, My fellow mag owners wittnessed it with my our own eyes.

AGD - Tom himself flat out stated that they were no longer targetting the tournament community, Why are you surprised they were not there?

As for banning: I doubt it, you have nto violated a rule. As to the feeling your new SN would save you from banning? IP banning for instance would take down all your SNs

[Fred]

Wow, this post could have been cut and paste from like... a year ago... and the year before that... and the year before that...

only difference is this new fad of "quoting for truth"...

Then again... I miss those days, when AO was FULL of zealots who were equally as mad about it... now we're just jaded to the point we don't care anymore...

[Lohman446]

AO is sending two teams to IAO, the Owners Group this year. This a tournament where the pressure of winning (and hopefully the incentive to cheat) is going to be lessened. See how mags perform. Maybe its not that your gun isn't fast enough, maybe the reason for not being competetive is an unwillingness to cheat. It woudl seem that we hear more and more the only way to compete with the big boys is to cheat, is it any surprise TK would nto want to be involved?

[r-unit]

what if we could get p.e. to make a eblade mag frame? that just might save mags, along with BETTER LOOKING bodies and stuff.

eblade
dw/agd collaboration body, not just a tube of metal


then mags might come back..

cuz ppl want guns that are fast and flashy, but i dont think thats what mags were meant to be. even though these ads are saying "fastest recharge in the universe"

sorry if all this is kinda random, im really tired.

[Army]

AGD never purposely catered to the tourney scene. AGD made a marker that was built for the long haul,and is tough as nails.

Lessee...Angels first arrived in what, 1998? Right off the git-go, WDP sponsored big name teams to put their product into the front of the VISUAL wars. Was the Angel better than 'Mags or 'Cockers then? Not really, it had some fairly new innovations for the day, but their main goal was marketing. Put it in the hands of Rocky Cagnoni, and every noob and muppet must have it....'cuz Rocky has one, so it's gotta be sick as hell. The original ACE sucked, it's ROF was slower than a 'Cocker, shootdown began at 11bps, forget trying to work on or fix it yourself, ...and the Jax Warriors were still cleaning up with their RT's.

Now, had AGD done the "normal" paintball marketing hype, and sponsored Dynasty today, this discussion would not be taking place as the noobs and muppets would be all ga-ga over the ULE RT-Pro.

That's what it is ALL about. Hype. You either do it, or lose it. As AGD never hyped anything without honest proof of performance, nor pushed their product on unknowing new players, their numbers never really took off. Players that really know quality and long lasting engineering, have always bought 'Mags ( I still have MY 10 year old MiniMag, and 13 year old classic) with no regrets to BPS or bling status.

That the RT valve is the industry's fastest, along with no measurable shootdown, means nothing to noobs and muppets that only see neon color, fancy milling, and whatever the Sugar Hill Gang is shooting today. Do you really think they care that the DM5 is nothing more than the good 'ol lousy efficiency Matrix in a swell new package? Can anyone really tell me what the real difference between the DM4 and the DMC is? I can tell you...its the marketing.

I agree, AGD will never be a force in the tourney scene, and will not be the "nth" thing in scenario either. But AGD markers will continue to be around paintball, as they are made to be used, and used, and used again. My Emag will easily hang with ANY marker out there...yes ANY marker, and any AGD marker will hang with any other mechanical. I have no need to buy another marker every time DYE, or WDP, or WGP, or Brass Eagle brings out the latest cosmetic change to an old design.

See, AGD just stayed with the old design all along!

[WARPED1]

Mags have been "done" for a long time in tournies. It is a great rec gun, asnd that's it, no matter how many cool upgrades it has(pneu mag, Devil mag) it's still just a mag.................

[BigEvil]

Mags have been "done" for a long time in tournies. It is a great rec gun, asnd that's it, no matter how many cool upgrades it has(pneu mag, Devil mag) it's still just a mag.................

"Just a mag" LOL.

Seriously everyone.. you all worry about what other people are shootin WAY too much.

Get out and play.

[mags247]

Glad to see that my rant has stirred up the pot. Even the guy at Devilsden posted a response to my rant on PBNation.

Just a refresher for those who havent been reading, Yes I am pissed that no one represented mags or their upgrades at the tourny. Most common response was It's a rec ball gun!! or "everyone knows that Mags are scenario guns". Damn I missed that Memo and apparently so did the folks at TIPPMAN. They had one of the biggest booths. WTF were they thinking.

Back on topic....The guy from devilsden took a stand, no respone from PTP worth noting.

He (GA Devil)stated that:
"considering it is $1500 for a 10'x10' space at the nppl event at the cheapest and having to get approval from wdp to set up We are not going to set up at such an event. There is no way for us to make that back up. For some reason people think its free for vendors to set up at events when in fact it costs us quite a bit. The small group of us that do mag stuff just cant make the money back required to set up at an event where we wont make money. Im sorry but its the brutal truth behind the business side.

then the added cost of travel, hotel and food for an event where the gun is considered "obsolete" whether it is or isnt just doesnt make it even possible".........

This in the business world is what is known of as the leap of faith. Anyone with a decent product and the vision that their product will be popular will do this ( i.e. every other company)
Those that don't either know their product either isn't that good so they may not want to get the start up capital from a let's see.......... oh yeah a bank!!! because they may not to recover to pay it back? or they dont trust the market they are pitching their product to. Where is their faith in the loyal mag owners?

If devilsden would have had a booth that would been there so I could have a tangible working (not a video) model of there gun I probably would have bought it, Like I said I love mag's. Hopefully someone who also truly loves mags and tinkers with have the balls to get out and show there stuff. I hope that a company with the right financial backing a company like lets say smart parts or shocktech will pull a PTP and put a patent on the rights to the Devil Frame and get that out of the dark and into the light. The Mag can still be the phoenix and rise from the ashes, will take R&D, andvertising and Ca$h.

But in all reality, I know in my heart that the mag has hit the wall as far as where it can go now. Maybe someone can make it happen but for now we are stuck with what we have, A great rec ball gun.

Gonna by an Ion, and get a Karta body if Deadlywind ever releases it.

Deadlywind if your reading this patent your body before someone else does and stops that one cold.

Oh yeah adrenaline_junkie hates me, that's so awesome. BTW your mom called and said you need to take a nap.

[WARPED1]

Oh yeah adrenaline_junkie hates me, that's so awesome. BTW your mom called and said you need to take a nap.

ROFLMFAO!! That was very funny! Don't lose any sleep over it! :)
And everyone who is smart knows it costs money to get a booth. But it takes money to make money.

[FromTheBack]

Chris[Devil's Den] was at Ultimate madness (a pretty big tourny event in WV if you havent heard of it.)about a month or two ago with AGD and TAG, having some Devil mags there along with predator installs for other guns. So it isn't like there is no effort by them to get this out there.

[WARPED1]

TUM in WV is a great tourney put on by PGP Bollenbach and others, but if you don't get into PSP/NPPL as a vendor too, chances are, your product will just sit on a shelf, kind of like most(not all) mags do.

[Adrenaline_Junkie]

I dont hate you by any means, i just find you very annoying. Weve all heard this before and from the looks of it all you want to do is stir people up which is pretty stupid. O yeah, i doubt anyones going to patent the making of ion bodies, thats like saying no one can make any custom bodies for cockers and other guns.

[FlawleZ]

You're very ignorant. There are no "performance" advantages to any other electro on the market compared to the E-mag. Just because the board says it's capable of 500 BPS, doesn't mean ANYTHING. It's only as fast as you can pull your fingers, which is usually 12-14 BPS.

Weight? It's called ULE.
Cosmetics? Heard of Deadly Wind?
Chopping? ACE, LV 10.
Efficiency? Since when did paintball become a game of who can last the longest on one fill? If it gets you from game to game, who really cares. What do you think All Day Air is for?
Speed? Let's see you pull your fingers at over 20 CPS. I've got $50 that says you won't come close.

Mags can't compete? Ehh.....false. Thanks for playing!!!

Am I the only one who isn't impressed with an Ion? It looks and feels SOOO cheap.

[Lohman446]

Chopping? ACE, LV 10.
.

Chopping: eyes vs LX - eyes in my opinion are more effective and require less tuning. Granted though that you may not agree with this. That being said though, when eyes function it does not cost you a cycle, LX does. This is A performance advantage, maybe minimal. Ramping when allowed is arguably a perforamnce advantage. Yes, there is at least one performance advantage, there may be others but there are arguable at best.

[Asian_Sensation]

I know that i will will most definately be banned me for this. Hence the new screen name.

I just wanted everyone to know that I am pi$$ed that there was NO I mean ZERO mag support at the tampa show.

Not a single booth. They handed out free magazines that rated all of the new markers and of course AGD had the Pro Classic advertised.

AGD is finished at the tourney scene. I now know this, My fellow mag owners wittnessed it with my our own eyes. Mags have stopped evolving. This does not mean that Mags suck but have no place in the tourney world. I just cant see a mag regardless of Pneumag or Devil mag ever hanging with an EGO. In a tourney the Mag would flat out run out of air (probably even faster with a pneumag) !!!

I was dissapointed to see that Devilmag and Proteam (brass Eagle)did not even show up. Yeah!!! that just lets me know that there are tons of New Mag upgrades on the forefront. I was really hoping that DevilsDen would have been there so I could at least inspect the DMAG frame for the following reasons:

1) I want to know how it feels before I order one.

2) See if there a real company or if they are just some guys taking money. I dont feel comfy sending the 450 for a frame and having them tell me It's going to be a couple of months.

I casual conversation we were speaking to people and vendors about mags. The most common response was they still make those!!!! That just made me want to take my Mag and throw in in the garbage. I love my mag, Great recball gun, tourney gun Never!!! (bring on the it's the "It's the skill of the player not the marker" comebacks) My buddy even bought a ION because we are sick of getting out shot buy some Noobs with High end electros. Granted they may not know how to use the gun to there fullest potential, but if you can ramp and have tons of paint you can shoot ropes and at least keep people pinned in spots you want them to stay in.

Mags have stopped evolving. I own Mags and this just makes me mad. I know that I will never brake my mag. However There will be a day that I will have to put it down and pick up a shocker to be competitive.

Recap:
At the Expo NO MAG SUPPORT

The Mag Name has lost some of it's Pedigree, in stead of people saying "I've heard about those", we get "They still make those?" (not justn kid but players my age (28) and vendors as well).

After watching the massive amount of intimidator use I dont know how the mag will ever compete on the tourney level.

Flame on!!!

first off agd is broke second i sported the out of my ule/logic mag and everyone LOVED IT! i sported it at pbnation...the grandstands...even some div 2 teams liked it... (this was on sunday) but you are right about the vendors they had no idea that mags still existed. but nppl at tampa was ok it wasnt to sweet.