My point of view on cheating.

[Teamslayer76]

Yak, I completly agree with you. I honestly have never whiped and do call my self out. I did once play a game where a whole team was nearly out and their players were coming back onto to field and shooting at us. Ref of course paid no attention. And the game was 6v11 Teamslayer Vs. Anyone. 1 Guy our "best" and cockiest player got gogged. But we eventually marker all of the other players out at least 2 times.

[can'tthink of1]

If your with a group of friends and no one is playing to seriously, Cheating is no big deal. If your in a tournament for money, cheating should get you kicked out. It all depends on the situation because sometimes its fun to shoot someone up when they cheat.

Only do that if you're with your friends. If you're at a feild in open play or something, someone like me will get pissed off and bonus ball you.

[etjoyride]

Well said Yakitori. I agree with you that cheating is a part of life, and you just need to get past it.

Also I went to the factory today and it was awesome, I'm def. gonna keep playing there :)

[Aliens-8-MyDad]

yes, factory is lovely... maybe ill see you round there. Look for the guy shooting either a red emag or a red ego (when i get it)

[Aslan]

Nope

I draw a distinction between tournament paintball and rec ball.

In rec ball if there is an honor system present and you can't stick to it you should kill yourself because I would get in trouble for doing it for you.

In a paintball tournament where there is and should not be an honor system present, anything goes. It's only cheating if you get caught. The thing is reffing is so bad at most events, that if everyone went by these rules the game would implode.


Paintball is a joke.

Still waiting for it to either grow up or self destruct.

So it's okay to cheat if you think the stakes are too high not to? That's rediculous. If you're playing against opponents who wip, you should get to use rubber bullets and require the other team to call themselves out. If they continue to cheat under that system, you should be allowed to use real bullets and let the chips fall where they may. Paintball came about because it was too easy for people to cheat at lazer tag. Now people cheat at paintball so they get lit up...then they whine about getting lit up as if one form of cheating is okay, as long as it's their form of cheating. That's childish.

[Jaan]

If your with a group of friends and no one is playing to seriously, Cheating is no big deal.

I'm not sure what you meant by that, but yeah ... I'd rather play renegade with friends than anything else for that reason. We don't have to cheat, we just make up different rules, like one shot and you're wounded and can't move (you have 3 seconds to find cover) and the second shot kills you. When we're playing rescue the pilot where if he dies the game is over, or we play where if you get hit you're on the other team. That's fun because you never know who's going to "turn" and you have to always watch your back, instead of the old run and hide behind a bunker and pop up occasionally.

[shartley]

[Kevmaster]

in a rec basketball game, im not going to make a hard foul on a guy as he goes up in the post. why? its not worth it. i dont want to a) risk hurting a friend b) elevate the game to that level. its just a casual game. will i travel every now and then, prolly. will it be called? prolly not.

but in a real game, damn straight im going to do whatever i can to stop him from scoring. the stakes are higher and it actually has value. if that means hitting his arm while 'going after the ball', and putting him on the line (where hopefully he'll make less than two) im going to do it. its a calculated risk. then again, if i already have four fouls, im not going to--because the juice ISNT worth the squeeze.

cheating, aka breaking hte rules, comes down to risk vs reward. in rec ball, i argue the reward never is great enough to justify cheating. in 'real' games, there are situations where the reward is greater than the risk. thats when its worth it.

[Lohman446]

cheating, aka breaking hte rules, comes down to risk vs reward. in rec ball, i argue the reward never is great enough to justify cheating. in 'real' games, there are situations where the reward is greater than the risk. thats when its worth it.

The reward is never enough to justify cheating... one cheats because they decide to, but don't justify it. There is no good justification, there is no good excuse, that does not diminish it happening, but I have a problem with one trying to lend credence to it by justifying it. Cheating is just that, cheating...

[yakitori]

Whilst I agree with the principle of your thoughts I do have a problem with part of your statement. You state above that you "make sure wipers get enough paint so they can't wipe" well ok if you see the person wipe then yes I see your point but the way it reads is that you will light up everyone which is a form of cheating in itself (by cheating in this way I mean going against the rules of the game and overshooting comes under this section as breaking the rules so by implication it is cheating) So thus you are making an assumption that all are cheats and even then you contradict yourself and say it is part of the game. You can't have it all ways.
I will walk when hit, hand on head or hand in the air (event dependant) and yet I still get hit in the back by over zealous opposition players....wander off slowly arms down and sorry you have it coming since you are not indicating that you are out but I would guess that has been covered more than once or twice before.
Breaking out with your hand across your face says you are preparing to wipe so expect some of that extra love you are talking about above but not all players act like this.

you kinda took what I meant out of context. I said that I shoot wipers. I didnt say that I assume that all ppl are cheaters, so I light everyone up. I dont overshoot. PPl that wipe where I play are well known. If you play against someone all day and they are wiping, then that is grounds to make sure they cant by putting more paint on them. That is why I said 'wipers' get enough paint that they cant wipe. Besides overshooting IMO is putting like 5-6 more balls on someone who has clearly signalled they are out. Just hitting someone w/ 5-6 balls is not overshooting. PPl that dont wipe, there is no need to keep painting them.

I hope you understand that now by re-reading my post and taking the nouns and verbs for what they really are, hence the noun 'wipers'. There was no implication that everyone gets light up. THanks for calling me a cheater though. I really appreciate that.

[Aslan]

I disagree

cheating, aka breaking hte rules, comes down to risk vs reward. in rec ball, i argue the reward never is great enough to justify cheating. in 'real' games, there are situations where the reward is greater than the risk. thats when its worth it.

What reward is there for winning if you cheated to win? One annoying thing about players that cheat is how they brag about their skills or the trophy they won or how generally great they are. But are they? No...they didn't have more game, they just cheated. So they really won nothing. It's like the teachers in school used to say, cheating can only get you so far. Eventually, you'll be in an environment where you have to rely on skills and you won't have any.

If I walk into a tourney, hand the ref $50 and he allows me to wipe and throw rocks at other players and start shooting before they can...I'm sure that everyone in the tourney would be up in arms and crying foul...but then the ref gives me my $50 back and starts to call the game fair and all the sudden the same crybabies are wiping and seeing if they can not get caught. It's the SAME THING...the same thing! You want to get a trophy to help your self-esteem issues...go to the store and buy won! But don't claim to have skills because you won a trophy or even a game when you cheated.

Cheaters have self-esteem issues...they feel that they have to win so they can have a better image of themselves,,,which is why they usually brag about it (winning or cheating) afterwards.

[yakitori]

Well said Yakitori. I agree with you that cheating is a part of life, and you just need to get past it.

Also I went to the factory today and it was awesome, I'm def. gonna keep playing there :)

sweet. Im glad you liked it.

Aliens....lol. At least someone here can vouch for my sportsmanship. . That was a fun day indeed. I am actually just finishing up a scab from sliding into that snake w/ my sleeves rolled up. Im going to the factory this saturday around 4pm. Maybe Ill see ya there sometime. Cant wait to see that ego when ya get it. Ive never shot or held one and Ive always been curious.

[Kevmaster]

What reward is there for winning if you cheated to win? One annoying thing about players that cheat is how they brag about their skills or the trophy they won or how generally great they are. But are they? No...they didn't have more game, they just cheated. So they really won nothing. It's like the teachers in school used to say, cheating can only get you so far. Eventually, you'll be in an environment where you have to rely on skills and you won't have any.

If I walk into a tourney, hand the ref $50 and he allows me to wipe and throw rocks at other players and start shooting before they can...I'm sure that everyone in the tourney would be up in arms and crying foul...but then the ref gives me my $50 back and starts to call the game fair and all the sudden the same crybabies are wiping and seeing if they can not get caught. It's the SAME THING...the same thing! You want to get a trophy to help your self-esteem issues...go to the store and buy won! But don't claim to have skills because you won a trophy or even a game when you cheated.

Cheaters have self-esteem issues...they feel that they have to win so they can have a better image of themselves,,,which is why they usually brag about it (winning or cheating) afterwards.

look at EVERY major professional sport: basketball, baseball, football.

basketball, you foul, travel, stay in the paint longer than 3 seconds, hold the ball for more than 5... its all CHEATING. You arnt allowed to initiate contact with another player that affects what he is trying to do. how many fouls are called per game? 25? 30? Somewhere around there. Post players are not allowed to stay in the paint for more than 3 seconds. They regularly break this rule. Why? because almost NEVER is this called. Going for a layup, want to take that extra step? Just hope it isn't called traveling.

baseball. catcher must stay in the 'catcher's box', batters must stay in the 'batters box' and you arn't allowed to slide out of the basepath to break up a double play. if you look at homeplate after 2-3 innings, you can't tell where the batters box ends or where the catchers box IS. Why? They've intentionally brushed the chalk away so they can move where they please. the umpire NEVER tells them to get 'in' the batters box. When you slide into second, you have to go with the basepath. you can't go out of it to knock over the short stop/second baseman. they regularly do, however. almost never is this called (it is occasionally--only in REALLY obvious cases).

football. its most obvious when it is a wide reciever or cornerback. they push off each other like there is no tomorrow. is it legal? no. do they know that? yes. is it so they can each try to get an advantage over one or the other? you bet ya. the wide receiver is trying to catch the durn ball. the corner bakc is trying to not let him catch it. oftentimes, it doesnt work, and one of hte two gets called for pass interference. thats the way it goes


i can continue, if i wanted to, with soccer, hockey, just about every sport... (i leave out golf, but i dont think ANYONE would compare the "gentlemen's game" of golf to paintball

do you look down on everyone who plays football? baseball? basketball? I dont think so. They are breaking the rules, knowing that they might get caught. They're hoping, however that they wont, and thats what makes breaking them attractive. its the same for paintball. joe wipes because he thinks the reward of him staying in is greater than the risk of the ref pulling someone else. sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt. thats the game

I specifically distinguish between this stuff and dirty plays. going back to hte baseball example, there are two ways to slide into the shortstop/secondbaseman. a dirty one and a clean one. i respeect the player who goes out of the baseline to just try to break it up. I have no respect for a player who tries to break it up by injuring another player. same can be said for a guy who tackles someone hard and someone who tackles someone trying to hurt them. those are two entirely different categories.

[Kevmaster]

The reward is never enough to justify cheating...

thats your opinion, and honestly, it is my inclination. thats why i run hte owners group division.

[Lohman446]

thats your opinion, and honestly, it is my inclination. thats why i run hte owners group division.

Let me discuss this with you though, it has become interesting the way you have said it, almost a level of "cheating" that may be acceptable.

Before I get accused of being hypocritical, I have cheated in the past, with full knowledge of it.

Your analogy of brushing the batters box, pushing off, etc.

Its kind of like running for a bunker, getting hit, and sliding before checking to see if it broke, You are technically against the rules, but you are not removing a "known" hit as you didn't pause to check. This is different then getting hit, pulling out your towel, and wiping it off. You could have been out, or you could have been in, you didn't really pay attention. Is that the type of situation you are discussing, those "gray" areas that obeying the rules strictly would get you destroyed (stopping to check the hit, or not sliding to make sure you did not wipe it off)? Is this then cheating?