My point of view on cheating.

[MarkM]

do you guys shoot 2bps in england? cause at 10bps or so , its not easy to keep more than one ball from breaking on ppl. As for tourney rules and players, most know that. PPl dont complain about 3-4 balls on them. But when they have signalled they are out, and THEN you put 4-5 more on them. Or even 1 more on them. They get upset.

Now who is trying to condescending again?

Re-read this first line from my last post...

I perfectly understand the difference between overshooting and just plain hit...often it is a judgement call as to the time it has taken...a single shot can be overshooting if a time delay has taken place and the player has clearly indicated that they are out...harsh but accurate.

Nowhere did I say about the player making the overshooting call...I am talking from a Judges perspective who should not have tunnel vision in the fire fight.
Too often judges laydown and watch one player with no realisation of the move going on behind them and only see paint on the player who they are watching and pull that player for sometimes a single hit but if they were to look over their shoulder they will see that the player who made the move is dripping paint and even though another judge may have pulled that player or maybe the player themselves has now left the field...who cheated? The player with a single hit? The other player? (who in all likely hood had to be hit several times but to no avail since he did what he was trying to do..eliminate the other guy) Grey areas but both of these two players in this example cheated by the letter of the rules. Though better judge awareness would have stopped the player who was hit the once going over the rules line, as the player making the move would have been removed from the field quicker. I from the sidelines have seen a move like the one decribed and the player with a single hit on them has had a penalty applied to them due to the vocal talents of the paint dripping player.
No rule book is totally cut and dried as whenever any league issues new rulebooks people disect every part to a stupid degree..in fact rules books are becoming more and more like legal documents in their wording adn the lack of plain english is sadly lacking but a clever interpretation of some rules can be used to actually argue away some infractions

[yakitori]

No rule book is totally cut and dried as whenever any league issues new rulebooks people disect every part to a stupid degree..in fact rules books are becoming more and more like legal documents in their wording adn the lack of plain english is sadly lacking but a clever interpretation of some rules can be used to actually argue away some infractions

My bad, I know that you meant if time had passed. But in my original post, I didnt imply that. I didnt think my statement about shooting a wiper more than once, was worthy of the "cheater" label that you gave me.

But in the end of your post. I totally agree w/ that statement. Nit picking and disecting a rule can go on to no end.

The bottomline is that ppl know how to play paintball by the rules. Its common sense pretty much. Like my example of moving a bunker when I bunkered a guy over the top of a juicebox, does that make me a cheater cause a rule was broken?

[Lohman446]

The bottomline is that ppl know how to play paintball by the rules. Its common sense pretty much.

No people don't know how to play by the rules as written. Stand on the sidelines and watch a game. There are a lot of people who cheat intentionally, and a lot of people who cheat because it is "the way everyone plays" but very few people play by written PSP / NPPL rules. You have taken this road to put yourself above a lot of people by saying I don't cheat. A lot of people have gone as far as to say anyone who cheats is trash. I am mearly taking the time to point out that in fact, many of you do not play by the rules as written. How is this different than cheating? That is an honest question.

[CrimsonGhost]

The whole Ignorance of the Law argument...good way to put it Lo

[yakitori]

No people don't know how to play by the rules as written. Stand on the sidelines and watch a game. There are a lot of people who cheat intentionally, and a lot of people who cheat because it is "the way everyone plays" but very few people play by written PSP / NPPL rules. You have taken this road to put yourself above a lot of people by saying I don't cheat. A lot of people have gone as far as to say anyone who cheats is trash. I am mearly taking the time to point out that in fact, many of you do not play by the rules as written. How is this different than cheating? That is an honest question.

so IMO, I dont cheat intentionally then. Hows that? I guess I am one of those unintentional cheaters who moves to a bunker to check for a break or bounce, or bobbles a bunker when I bunker someone, or shoots someone w/ more than one ball.

Im a total scum bag unintentional cheater.

[Thordic]

Anyone who stopped moving every time they felt a hit is an idiot. I don't care if its against the rules or not.

Army, I think even you would have trouble argueing with that.

If I'm running towards a bunker and feel a hit that may or may not have broken, I'm going to get to that bunker before I check. The reason is, if I stop to check or have a ref check, I'm going to get hit again. And then I'll be out.

If you make it to the bunker, then you can check safely and still be in the game if it was a bounce.

Thats an area where I think the rule is faulty and should be altered.

[Lohman446]

Anyone who stopped moving every time they felt a hit is an idiot. I don't care if its against the rules or not.

I agree with you. What I don't agree with the people who say "I have no respect for someone who cheats" "cheaters suck" etc. and then try to justify there own violations of the rules as ok. I cheat... think what you want of me for it, I deserve it, but I don't sit here and try to justify how its ok for you to ignore a rule and be different.

[Lohman446]

so IMO, I dont cheat intentionally then. Hows that?

That would be a cop out.

So from now on you're going to follow the rule as written, or continue cheating even though you know the rule. Thats not unintentional, thats attempting to justify your cheating as ok, but everyone elses, or different forms as wrong. You choose to ignore a rule you don't agree with, that is not unintentional.

[shartley]

[Lohman446]

Let me ask you this example Sam. I am running to my bunker, I feel a hit and yet I dive into my bunker anways. I have clearly violated the rule as it is written. This is the way "everyone" plays. Why didn't I stop and check, as the rule says I should? I would have been lit up and obviously eliminated, continuing to move helps me win. It is not an accidental stepping out of bounds... is it cheating? I did it intentionally, though I have not wiped intentionally :P? Serious question, I'd like to know what you think, you seem to be able to see the lines, and make a reasonable judgement.

[shartley]

Let me ask you this example Sam. I am running to my bunker, I feel a hit and yet I dive into my bunker anways. I have clearly violated the rule as it is written. This is the way "everyone" plays. Why didn't I stop and check, as the rule says I should? I would have been lit up and obviously eliminated, continuing to move helps me win. It is not an accidental stepping out of bounds... is it cheating? I did it intentionally, though I have not wiped intentionally :P? Serious question, I'd like to know what you think, you seem to be able to see the lines, and make a reasonable judgement.

[MadPSIence]

That would be a cop out.

So from now on you're going to follow the rule as written, or continue cheating even though you know the rule. Thats not unintentional, thats attempting to justify your cheating as ok, but everyone elses, or different forms as wrong. You choose to ignore a rule you don't agree with, that is not unintentional.

wait.. he copped out again?

wow.

[SlartyBartFast]

If 1/4 of the energy spent whining and complaining about cheating were put into lobbying and organisation for concrete rule changes and enforcement, the game would be light years ahead.

Guess it's just easier to ***** about wipers.

I will say that the 2005 rules are an improvement. But, there's still lots more to go before the rules are acceptable and match the game or vice versa.

[yakitori]

I agree w/ slarty as to the semantics and interpretatioin of the rule. It needs to be revised or more clear. And those rules are for NPPL/PSP, etc. Not everyone plays in those leagues, so are those rules the same when I go to the field and play w/ a bunch of other players in a non tourney setting?

Honestly, how many of us play in the Nppl? How many of us have read and know in detail the Nppl rulebook? So, does it make ppl a cheater in other sports. For instance, in the NFL if you drop a knee, and are untouched, you can return to your feet and continue playing. In college and everywhere else you cant. But say your college buddies call you and want to go to the park to play football. You catch a kick off and slip one foot and touch a knee. Then you get up and return the ball. Is everyone going to be griping and moaning about you cheating, calling you cheater, etc?

And no Lohman, that wasnt a cop out. That was a joke, hence the tongue sticking out. :P. You just didnt copy the whole quote, only on particular sentence, and then elaborated on it. The surrounding text was there to serve a purpose to simplify the statement.

.

[SCpoloRicker]

wait.. he copped out again?

wow.

Wow, you win at the intarwebs. Again. Blarg, you're annoying.