Hammerhead barrels, and their lies!

[shartley]

Wow you are a grade A jerk. Congratulations on interfering with somebody's business. It's one thing of a customer asks for an open opinion, but when you rudly butt in with your opinion that nobody asks for...? Who the hell are you to do that to the vendor? Or any company in general?

My opinion of the barrel's performance aside, if the guy is telling the truth or handing out hype.... that is all besides the point. If you had to discuss his false hype then at least have been polite and with enough RESPECT to after the customer's gone. Then start your discussion with him.


I'll make sure to stop by where you work and drive away your customers, to take money out of your pockets. To see if you like it as much as he did.

[Meph]

That's the thing though, EVERYBODY cries "hype" without usually ever shooting it. I've shot it, I love the hammerhead. But I don't think I would say it's superior.

There's no tests to prove it's a lie! There are however tests (or some reviews) that indicate that it indeed does make the promised claims. Can you show me anywhere that proves the hammerhead barrel system is a lie? You automatically roar lie, but where is your data to back that up?

If one is to say it's a lie then you also have to have proof, just as claims of accuracy need proof. They have at least a minimal amount of data. But people saying it's hype/lie have nothing... ever. As usual.


And yes, you are absolutely correct. It's in the right interest to go up and tell somebody in the middle of his sales pitch "YOUR FULL OF IT." Correct you are Shartley.

[shartley]

That's the thing though, EVERYBODY cries "hype" without usually ever shooting it. I've shot it, I love the hammerhead. But I don't think I would say it's superior.

There's no tests to prove it's a lie! There are however tests (or some reviews) that indicate that it indeed does make the promised claims. Can you show me anywhere that proves the hammerhead barrel system is a lie?


And yes, you are absolutely correct. It's in the right interest to go up and tell somebody in the middle of his sales pitch "YOUR FULL OF IT." Correct you are Shartley.

Hype does not always have to be a lie. It can be a stretch of the truth. But when you look at what is being said:

He was talking to a customer and claimed that the short 8 inch hammerhead was just as accurate as the 12 inch model except that the 8" had less range.

[Meph]

I'm saying I really don't care what people say. Everybody talks. Especially from their thoughts and ideas, NOT from tested experience. I actually bought a Hammerhead for this very purpose. I want to make one giant testing to get this all over and done with, so I can stop seeing threads like this. It'll be worth the $$.


Do hammerheads have more range or accuracy? I honestly don't know, but I plan to find out. Compared to a Scepter, Lapco Snapshot, and Freak.

But now, I'll add this to the list. 8" compared to 12" or 14" lengths. Might as well. I don't like how you "just know" it's fact/fiction. I like documented proof. I take nothing but. Because people lie and people get twisted ideas. But documentation is just recordings of what happens, not an opinion.



All of this crap aside I still personally do not condone or agree with telling somebody that they're basically an idiot stick right in front of their customers. Telling truth or marketing hype aside... that does not matter! He's doing business, it's how he makes his money. But hey if you agree with people insulting and arguing with vendors then be my guest. I don't share the same.

[shartley]

I'm saying I really don't care what people say. Everybody talks. Especially from their thoughts and ideas, NOT from tested experience. I actually bought a Hammerhead for this very purpose. I want to make one giant testing to get this all over and done with, so I can stop seeing threads like this. It'll be worth the $$.


Do hammerheads have more range or accuracy? I honestly don't know, but I plan to find out. Compared to a Scepter, Lapco Snapshot, and Freak.

But now, I'll add this to the list. 8" compared to 12" or 14" lengths. Might as well. I don't like how you "just know" it's fact/fiction. I like documented proof. I take nothing but. Because people lie and people get twisted ideas. But documentation is just recordings of what happens, not an opinion.



All of this crap aside I still personally do not condone or agree with telling somebody that they're basically an idiot stick right in front of their customers. Telling truth or marketing hype aside... that does not matter! He's doing business, it's how he makes his money. But hey if you agree with people insulting and arguing with vendors then be my guest. I don't share the same.

[Meph]

That's fine then. I'll make sure if you have vendors at your field that I stand by their booths and argue with them and drive away their customers based on what I think to be fact of products.

Personally I like to do research or test items myself for me to make up my mind. If you prefer to have your somebody's opinion to make up your mind then so be it. I personally just don't trust people's opinions. I like to test stuff and determine it myself.


And you are indeed correct that he didn't drive away the customer.

by this time the customer was scared off ...

Indeed, had nothing to do with the situation. Right as always Shartley

Just curious, where did you test to find out in paintball that 8" has equal range to 12"? I honestly have never seen anything for testing to argue either way. I've seen talk about 12" and 18" barrels, yeah. But not this situation.

I'm curious because you say it's a straight up lie like you have done the research yourself, so I want to see where you're getting that from is all.

*edit*
I'm not saying that there isn't some review or testing or what have you out there. I'm sure there has to be, somebody has to have done this. Just that I haven't seen it, so I'd like to take a read.

[shartley]

Now why did you have to do that? Are you delusional?

That's fine then. I'll make sure if you have vendors at your field that I stand by their booths and argue with them and drive away their customers based on what I think to be fact of products. .

Personally I like to do research or test items myself for me to make up my mind. If you prefer to have your somebody's opinion to make up your mind then so be it. I personally just don't trust people's opinions. I like to test stuff and determine it myself.

And you are indeed correct that he didn't drive away the customer.
Indeed, had nothing to do with the situation. Right as always Shartley

You can roll your eyes all you want, but you are correct. I AM right and I am sure that just chaps your rear. Like I said, I think there is something more to your arguments and apparent outrage than the fact that a vendor lied to people and was called on it.

Just curious, where did you test to find out in paintball that 8" has equal range to 12"? I honestly have never seen anything for testing to argue either way. I've seen talk about 12" and 18" barrels, yeah. But not this situation.

I'm curious because you say it's a straight up lie like you have done the research yourself, so I want to see where you're getting that from is all.

*edit*
I'm not saying that there isn't some review or testing or what have you out there. I'm sure there has to be, somebody has to have done this. Just that I haven't seen it, so I'd like to take a read.

[JoshK]

That's fine then. I'll make sure if you have vendors at your field that I stand by their booths and argue with them and drive away their customers based on what I think to be fact of products.

I thought you wouldn't do that? You don't care what people think. And you keep on messing up one thing...they wern't argueing because of opinions...he corrected someone who was blatently lying.

Personally I like to do research or test items myself for me to make up my mind. If you prefer to have your somebody's opinion to make up your mind then so be it. I personally just don't trust people's opinions. I like to test stuff and determine it myself.

Try telling that to Isaac Newton. Why didn't you test the stuff before you call it opinion? You have contradicted yourself more than I care to quote as of now.

And you are indeed correct that he didn't drive away the customer.
Indeed, had nothing to do with the situation. Right as always Shartley

According to the first post it was a combination of both of them that drove away the custom...have you ever heard "It takes two to tango"?

Just curious, where did you test to find out in paintball that 8" has equal range to 12"? I honestly have never seen anything for testing to argue either way. I've seen talk about 12" and 18" barrels, yeah. But not this situation.

It's basic knowlege that it doesn't matter how long the barrel is. It is what velocity the paintball has when leaving the barrel. You are one of those people that believe the earth is still flat arn't you?


-Josh

P.S. I wouldn't take sides if I were you if "You don't have proof".

[SlartyBartFast]

Just curious, where did you test to find out in paintball that 8" has equal range to 12"? I honestly have never seen anything for testing to argue either way. I've seen talk about 12" and 18" barrels, yeah. But not this situation.

Your position SEEMS admirable, but come on man. How are YOU going to test everything?

That and it's up to those making the claims to prove they're true. Not up to others to prove them false.

As for somethings, well anyone with half a clue should be able to understand the concepts without any testing. The above is obvious. Once a projectile has left the launching device, the device has no more effect on the projectile.

Whether launched by black powder, slingshot, catapult, trebuchet, rocket, or compressed air, regardless of the time and energy required to accelerate to final velocity, once free of the launch divice, all that matters is the state of the projectile.

So, same velocity, same range. Same projectile, same accuracy.

Read the spin physics thread in deep blue and you'll know that it's IMPOSSIBLE to improve the accuracy of a paintball due to it's shape and weight and the random forces that are exerted on it during flight.

TK's/AGD's experimentation is available in the data thread in deep blue...

If ANYONE claimed they studied engineering or physics and claimed that inertia was somehow affected by length of barrel, I'd have no qualms calling them an idiot.

[TheTramp]

[JoshK]

I thought he was saying that there is no proof that the length doesn't affect the range,

-Josh

[hitech]

There's no tests to prove it's a lie!

Yes there are...

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=64669

and...

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=34429

[TheTramp]

I thought he was saying that there is no proof that the length doesn't affect the range,

-Josh

Yes he was. Distance along with other claims made by the Hammerhead mfg including the "benifits" of rifiling. He's wrong. Between AGD, Warpig, and many others tests have been done on distance and every other thing about barrels and paintball flight.

[Paintchucker]

This seems like a funny thread, very amusing...

IMHO, original poster was a jerk for interferring with the sales pitch.

It seems that this barrel has rifling... Now, I am not looking to start a smooth bore projectile in a rifled barrel debate, but again IMHO, it does put a spin on the ball that a smooth bore barrel does not, like an armson. If that is indeed the case, it seems a longer barrel would in effect put more spin on the ball, and perhaps giving more range like a backspinning flatliner barrel...

[Arson51]

Well Im glad Im more right than that guy. Before that day i really liked Hammerhead barrels. I even met the other(Judson) creator down in OKC indoor, he had a box full of prototypes and even let me use the cocker threaded one to play against him and his son! He was such a nice guy the only thing keeping me from buying the barrel on the spot was the 300$ price tag. Now its not the price tag stopping me, it's the LIES!

It may have been a bit impolite to turn around and cut into a reps sales pitch, but its alot more impolite to lie to that said customer! it was the first thing that came into my mind when my mind made the connection. after that argument repeated itself several times (both parties being stubborn and misinformed). He handed me a print out of an AGP article by Robert Judson, called "Flight of the Paintballs" its basicaly a sumary of Judsons test and observations and many barrels and markers, it didnt back any of his claims up, it was basicaly a recap of everything tom kay told us in the last decade baring his study on spining. It starts out exactly how Meph starts out his argument "i dont trust anyones studies i will do my own"