Mags are NOT "high end" markers

[MonsterMag]

I'd shoot an ion over most e-mags.

that's how i think of guns these days, and where i draw the high-end line. Does it outperform that ion?

Have you ever shot a well tuned emag? They ripp if you know how to use them. I have been acused of ramping when I was using emode. :spit_take So a $600 marker that will last a few life times or a marker made of composite plastic and cheap aluminum.
I consider anything over $500 a high end marker , dont listen to your friends.

Also if you look here you notice how you are in the "high end mech guns" what markers do you see? Mags

and here The Emag

[Lohman446]

I may be wrong here, but it would seem to me that if you can turn off the air that holds the bolt back (in essence turning off the spring) thats less resistance the bolt coming forward has to overcome. Then you turn off the air behind the bolt and put air in front of it to move it back with minimal resistance...

[slade]

in a spring return system you aren't really overcoming the spring, you are storing that energy in the spring until the end of the cycle, the energy has to come from somewhere. if you aren't using the air to push the spring then you are using it to move the bolt back in the absence of that spring. this has come up in several other threads (mostly in the tech forum).

in a spring return, you use high pressure to blow forward and overcome the spring, and the spring to return. in electropneumatic, you use medium pressure to blow forward and low pressure for the return. in theory, that means that the air used for each shot may be somewhat equal, but with the electropneumatic one, you can shoot farther into the tank. that being said, my mag, which shoots down to 800 psi, is about as efficient as my freestyle, which shoots down to maybe 400 psi (with drop off).

[BD_Paintball]

sorry hockeynoodles020 but your friend is right. mags are not "high end" any more. sad but true

[trains are bad]

I think high end, means fit, finish, and build quality. As such mags may be the most high end mass produced markers out there, period.

[Athius]

Mags arents high end or low end they are old.

[hitech]

I may be wrong here, but it would seem to me that if you can turn off the air that holds the bolt back (in essence turning off the spring) thats less resistance the bolt coming forward has to overcome. Then you turn off the air behind the bolt and put air in front of it to move it back with minimal resistance...

The air pressure in the 'mag is not used up to push against the spring. That same air pressure that compresses the spring also launches the paintball. What makes the 'mag less efficient than it could be (in a level 10 'mag) is that this pressure continues to vent after the paintball has left the barrel. Additionally, the lower peak pressure behind the paintball contributes to more air usage. And I have confirmed this with the man himself...

[Lohman446]

The air pressure in the 'mag is not used up to push against the spring. That same air pressure that compresses the spring also launches the paintball. What makes the 'mag less efficient than it could be (in a level 10 'mag) is that this pressure continues to vent after the paintball has left the barrel. Additionally, the lower peak pressure behind the paintball contributes to more air usage. And I have confirmed this with the man himself...

I vaguely see what you mean, the air would be there anyways. I have to go back and think that one through, because I still am having a problem accepting that no energy (air) is lost to the resistance of that spring... but I see where the idea that its already being used so it just has dual uses for the same energy comes from.

[BigEvil]

I would argue, even though I love the simple mechanics of the mag, that the spring return (as opposed to air return of an Ion or Freestyle) makes it not state of the art. The advantages of air return (where the force can be cut off) may include lower operating pressure (no spring to overcome) and more efficiency because of it.

I see your point...... but its debatable.

Using that logic, I could than say that a mag is technologically superior because it had an integrated regulator..... as opposed to having to have a seperate one externally.

Its all splitting hairs.

There really is no clear answer to this debate.

It is all preference.

[A-Tach-One]

in a spring return, you use high pressure to blow forward and overcome the spring, and the spring to return. in electropneumatic, you use medium pressure to blow forward and low pressure for the return. in theory, that means that the air used for each shot may be somewhat equal, but with the electropneumatic one, you can shoot farther into the tank. that being said, my mag, which shoots down to 800 psi, is about as efficient as my freestyle, which shoots down to maybe 400 psi (with drop off).

Agreed. Using the Freestyle and the Emag as an example, I have had the same experience with efficiency and they seem pretty equal if were going by shots from a tank.

[Boydster]

Its high-end in the mechanical area I guess...

Exactly

[Teamslayer76]

I will completly agree that mags are "high end" but "state of the art" and "up to tech" no.
Like RRfireblade said along with J&C Lohman and others it is build to the best it can be.
It's the highest end gun in that sense IMHO.

Then again we have the other thing that make it "highend" such as price we could all go into so much detail from X-Valves to LVL5 mags. The costs range from 2,000 to 200.

Also note that technology always changes constantly like the 386 example way back there always changing. What is high end today in 2 years is "crap".

So with all these points made I've come to the confusion that there are so many posiblities it's not even worth while classifing guns completly. And maybe to make it easy I'll just go by names, now if it sounds like crap it is, That's all I've got.

[r-unit]

if that guy says 'lol' one more time..............

[Pyroboy597]

i personally dont think mags can compete with "today's markers", and i can say that because i own a mag. Mags are becoming more of a collector gun. The efficiency and ease of use of a mag is not great when compared to high end mech cockers.

Also, Monster MAg, i would also shoot my ion over an e-mag, unless it was a predator e-mag. Mags have a ton of kick, where ions dont, and ion's are far cheaper with many upgrades that are made besides the ones made by smartparts.

[A-Tach-One]

For the ones who think the Mag is not high end, please explain why it is not, besides not being state of the art. How is something that is not State of the Art, mean that it is not high end anyway? Are restored classic custom vehicles low end? Thanks guys.