Just a thought.... (propane)

[blamtro]

My field gives free fills so that would actually benefit em.

You realize it is not "free". The price of air fills is built into some other product they sell whether it be field fee or field paint. Be assured, you are paying for it someway or another.

Here's some food for thought.... air fills are a source of revenue for both field and store owners. If players will be able to power their markers for thousands of shots for next to nothing, then why would the industry be willing to change to propane?

The industry will be forced to change if there is demand for it. If you, the player, had the choice between a 68 cu tank that weighs several pounds or a 12gr CO2 size propane container, assuming both gave equal number of shots per fill; what would you choose? The paintball players will demand it. It is just a matter of propane being able to power semi-autos of current BPS speeds.

Mike

[Phantom_Mag]

Okay about the comment of free blamto, believe it or not, they arnt all out to get you. I own a small shop at a field i give out plenty of free air fills PLENTY. And i dont jack up prices anywhere else. Not everyone in the paintball industry is out to get the consumer.

[MnSparky]

Field owners will embrace this because, especially with Co2, they lower their costs and manpower needs. Co2 is costly to buy in bulk (compared to compressed air, after of course owners buy a compressor) and very time consuming to get to the field and fill individual tanks. Also, if players are spending money on Co2 or compressed air fills, they are probably going to play less then if the players have enough "air" to last for days and days of playing...this could potentially mean an increase in paint sales...If a player does not run out of air during a game, and they don't spend time in a refill line, they will be out there slinging more paint. I think that if this technology proves reliable and consistant, it could bring about a lot of changes.

[Rather]

I agree with MnSparky, CO2 is just not worth the wait for the people playing ant the people working. I'd rather theybeout having fun than waiting in line to get a fill, it also means everyone gets to go home earlier and have just as much fun than if waiting in line half the day.

IF this really does kick off then heck. I think i'm going to abstain from buying a new gun (after selling my pride and joy) if they manage to get propane to work in semi's. :)


Would also mean that if this become's more widely used, years from now the start up costs for a good field will be lowered because they no longer have to have a surplus of CO2 and/or an air compressor (talking distant future here), which means they have more to spend on keeping the field in working order, better turf, better safety (netting, more ref's, ect). The field might also be able to stick around for more than a year because of it. :)

[mobsterboy]

it wont ever go electro. Due to the fact that all of you were acting ridiculous, im guessing im the only one who read the warpig.com review of the C3. So i'll state it for you again. Combustion is what propels the balls indirectly and after about 10 or so shots, the gun starts to get hot. The gun would melt down if you put it electro or you would drop it b/c it would burn you

[Glickman]

it wont ever go electro. Due to the fact that all of you were acting ridiculous, im guessing im the only one who read the warpig.com review of the C3. So i'll state it for you again. Combustion is what propels the balls indirectly and after about 10 or so shots, the gun starts to get hot. The gun would melt down if you put it electro or you would drop it b/c it would burn you

melt?

if you really DID do your research, you would see that stock, it s capable of 4 bps, which, if fitted with a home-made eblade or something to that nature, would be fine.

melt ?

[OneEyedPimp]

it wont ever go electro. Due to the fact that all of you were acting ridiculous, im guessing im the only one who read the warpig.com review of the C3. So i'll state it for you again. Combustion is what propels the balls indirectly and after about 10 or so shots, the gun starts to get hot. The gun would melt down if you put it electro or you would drop it b/c it would burn you

Well, your also assuming that they do not find a way to distribute the heat more rapidly.

[blamtro]

Okay about the comment of free blamto, believe it or not, they arnt all out to get you. I own a small shop at a field i give out plenty of free air fills PLENTY. And i dont jack up prices anywhere else. Not everyone in the paintball industry is out to get the consumer.

I didn't mean to imply that all fields are making a fortune on air, but rather a field owner is not going to give it away. You at least have to sell it at cost.

[ojhspyro89]

I do not understand how tippmann says they are going to get 50000 shots per propane. It just isn't reasonable. To achive a velocity of 300 fps with a .68"x14" barrel the chamber would have to be .8 of that size which is 7.62 square inches. For correct ignition a mix of 4.03% fuel to air is requiered. This means that there must be .33 square inches of propane in the chamber. This is the part I don't know. If someone knew how much propane at room temp. under normal atmospheric pressure took up .33 of an inch then we could find out how many shots we could get from 16oz of propane.

Buzzboy, even with the .8/1 ratio, thats for spudguns. This new tippmann doesnt really sound like its regulated, but i havnt looked into it. Plus, spudguns shoot over 300 fps, and its a lot heavier projectile. Since a paintball is so light, you would only need a TINY bit of propane and o2. You could probably get away with a .5-1 CB ratio and still shoot up to 300 fps.

A good valve with good flow will shoot a paintball 300 fps at like 30-50 psi.

Oh yeah, heat would be a big problem. Being that if you wanted the heat to disepate quickly so you could rapid fire, you would need huge cooling grids. Either that or have free-on circulating around your gun....

In high rates of fire, you would be out of luck. The gun would get really hot and a premature ignition could happen. Also, even if a gun would be made for higher rof, the gun would have to fill quicker. And the propane inside the tank is only like 160 psi. I really doubt it could be consistant at high rate of fire unless there was a gas metering system but that would slow the gun down also.

[mobsterboy]

melt?

if you really DID do your research, you would see that stock, it s capable of 4 bps, which, if fitted with a home-made eblade or something to that nature, would be fine.

melt ?

ok smart boy, go get one, mod it with a different restricter, and then go beyond 4 bps, and i'll meet you in the ER. When i said electro, i meant around 10 to 15 bps. The only way they would redistribute the heat is if they had water cooling system on it, but then you might as well get a car instead, cuz all taht will be missing is the drivetrain. I was exagerating about the car, but it would be more hassle than worth.

[yingyang]

Batteries in a pump doesnt match well...

[Pha|anx]

Here's some food for thought.... air fills are a source of revenue for both field and store owners. If players will be able to power their markers for thousands of shots for next to nothing, then why would the industry be willing to change to propane?

*WARNING* I did not read the entire post, if this has allready been said-- Whatever. *WARNING*

Not only are they are they a source of revenue, on a per fill basis, do we forget the whole tank industry? Center Flag, AGD, SP, Air America, MAC DEV, Guerilla Air, PMI, Nitro Duck, and Crossfire all make inline (Right name? Not sure.) Propane will ruin a market which has been acepted since Compressed Air went mainstream. The companies named will not just sit back and let that happen.

What abount pneumatics in general? Wouldn't that all have to change? Is propane a clean gas? Or is it going to wreak havoc on solenoids, 3ways, hp regs, lp regs, orings, rams, and all those air related items that make up the internals of a high end marker?

Just a few thoughts.

[Glickman]

ok smart boy, go get one, mod it with a different restricter, and then go beyond 4 bps, and i'll meet you in the ER. When i said electro, i meant around 10 to 15 bps. The only way they would redistribute the heat is if they had water cooling system on it, but then you might as well get a car instead, cuz all taht will be missing is the drivetrain. I was exagerating about the car, but it would be more hassle than worth.

who says i was looking to go past 4bps?

never even implied it, im talking about putting on an electro grip, thats all.

oh, and btw, water cooling would still be very ineffective.

[mobsterboy]

why put an electro frame on something that cant or wont go past 4 bps? Thats like putting wings on a turtle, the turtle will still walk 2 mph, and wont fly. More ground will not be covered, so why? And wow, if you say the AGG effect, i will lose any respect for you that i have now, which is very little

[Glickman]

why put an electro frame on something that cant or wont go past 4 bps? Thats like putting wings on a turtle, the turtle will still walk 2 mph, and wont fly. More ground will not be covered, so why? And wow, if you say the AGG effect, i will lose any respect for you that i have now, which is very little

pretty quick to pull the trigger on "AGG" expecially someone who uses the incredibly mature bragging of beating out a "more experianced player with a better gun." thats pretty new

/personal slap for a personal slap i say (as in just joking around, welcome to the forums )


why would you want a electro frame on a gun that cant go more then 4 bps?
to me atleast, i like the fluidity and lightness of an electo grip, maybe because thats my preference over my cocker.

its personal preference, one thing that you can agree on is that the feeling of a electro and even light mech triggers are still quite different.