Kosmos thread about paintball: AGD, S.P., and 15 year olds

[minimag03]

SP having figured out how to dominate the market does not give them the right to eliminate their competition, or extort fees, by threatening lawsuits that only they have the capability of financing.

Who says it doesn't give them the right to do so? The richest people have been able to do what they wanted since the beginning of history. SP is no different if you look at it from that point of view.

[punkncat]

Who says it doesn't give them the right to do so? The richest people have been able to do what they wanted since the beginning of history. SP is no different if you look at it from that point of view.

I have to agree. Just because it doesn't seem right to many doesn't mean they they have no right to use that as a tactic. I mean hey, if others can't afford to battle you in court and you basically force them to either quit or pay royalties, you have used your resources to give you an advantage over the competition.

I think its unfortunate that they have chosen to practice buisiness that way, but as of yet its not illegal.

[RapidTransit]

I have to agree. Just because it doesn't seem right to many doesn't mean they they have no right to use that as a tactic. I mean hey, if others can't afford to battle you in court and you basically force them to either quit or pay royalties, you have used your resources to give you an advantage over the competition.

I think its unfortunate that they have chosen to practice buisiness that way, but as of yet its not illegal.

They do its called the Sherman Anti Trust Act. But nowadays the only people under their scope is Microsoft, if the goverment would act like they did way back when, we would probably be still strolling down the street to our favorite corner drugstore named after the owner or street and not CVS or Walgreens. And ExxonMobile would stay separate, What the hell is wrong with this country they break up Standard Oil to only have 2 of the largest oil companies that were part of the break up merge together again.

[REDRT]

youre on a budget and you spent $1050 for a nerve?

I'm on a budget and have $1800 in the Emag, $1300 in the RT and I believe close to $500 in the minimag currently. Spread it out over the 12 years that I have been playing. And it isn't too bad. Too bad most money in up's was spent in the last few years though.

AGD=Quality. Always has hopefully always will. Making cost effective crap wouldn't work for AGD. They're too small not to have top self stuff. Might back fire if they did. How many times do you think something just isn't as good as you remember it or just not as good as the original? Never with AGD. And as a rule quality like that is going to cost more than a mass produced throw aways.
All I know is I'm seeing more and more mags in the store. Seems like I'm often tuning someones lvl10,maybe a ult or just talking to someone interested in my mags/mags in general. I met AO's own Dharma punk a few weeks ago by pure chance at the store. A fella came in last night with a Classic RT with a Z-grip. A new to mags guy in his 30's. Plays out in the woods with friends. Heard mags were the best quality money could buy and are just as reliable. The word still echos far and wide my friends. No need to join them when in many ways we still beat them.

[Steelrat]

Who says it doesn't give them the right to do so? The richest people have been able to do what they wanted since the beginning of history. SP is no different if you look at it from that point of view.

So because someone can do something, that automatically makes it right? Obviously the can do it, as they did do it. I'm sure you have enough moral fibre to call out something you feel is wrong, which is what I am doing here. If you want the future of paintball to be large corporations that smother or intimidate any small, innovative, and defenseless start-ups, then go on justifying SP's behavior. I think it's pretty sad.

[RoamingStorm]

Let me make an analogy.

A Music store I used to work for was owned by a very nice german guy named Horst. Horst was in his 70s when he decided to sell the store. He was a certified dealer with Fender, Ibanez, Hofner, Gibson, and Peavey. Now the new owners could be nice at times but they bought the store out of recreation. Probably to get the wife out of the house

Their Idea make the store not look like a drug front (which of course it wasnt) and eliminate all these high end guitar contracts, form a contract with Johnson CO. and Sell cheap guitars for $400 a crack. Very soon I noticed being able to sell two or three guitars a week go down to about one 8 year old kid a month who floundered into the store with mommy and daddy. The music instructors left with their rent money, then I left. The store is now barely scraping along on doing repairs.

Now how does this relate?

Smart parts is using the same ideology. This might be a more applicable market but people still want high end products. There will always be a demand for high end products. Smart Parts know this which is why they have the Shocker and Nerve. Will this help the consumer? Will this help the industry? people can make predictions but no one can no for sure. From what I understand they put patents on EVERYTHING whether or not they were the first on the block. I dont like Smart Parts because they dont realize that they need competition in order to survive. They are trying to eliminate competition to drive the market. Sure all these rave guns made out of durable plastic is creating lots of revenue for fields, but when it comes down to it. The recreational players are the ones resorting to backyard fields to eliminate the new players who got an ion for christmas.

Who here is pumped for the AKA/Alien "Remains"? Anyone know when they hit the market?

[kosmo]

That analogy sucks.

[RoamingStorm]

What I was trying to say is, Smart Parts is looking to make the cheapest gun possible, a low end product. Its the same thing that happened there, once no more high end products were available the customers left and the store is shutting down. People do want high end products which is why there is such a demand for the Angels, Matrixes, Borgs. Hobbyists dont use low end products, they spend money on products that match their needs. Smart Parts would do well to recognize this

[minimag03]

So because someone can do something, that automatically makes it right? Obviously the can do it, as they did do it. I'm sure you have enough moral fibre to call out something you feel is wrong, which is what I am doing here. If you want the future of paintball to be large corporations that smother or intimidate any small, innovative, and defenseless start-ups, then go on justifying SP's behavior. I think it's pretty sad.

I don't like the fact that other companies have to pay the price; it is sad. But paintball isn't a stable business. Maybe SP is just looking out for their own interest in an industry where most companies fail.

[AGDRetro]

I agree with you on some points but the thing is that you don't seem to have your facts straight. Bob Long and the Intimidator didn't come into the picture until after the Bushmaster and Impulse. As far as these stacked tube electro-pneumatics go, it was the Bushmaster that first entered the arena as a simplified version of what a slimmed down Angel could be. All 3 of these guns however still use a 4-way solenoid (which WDP just calls a 14-way), where they choose to put it in the gun is simply different. Is the Bushy/Imp/Timmy a simpler version of the Angel? Absolutely! Use a common 9-volt and and easy to remove bolt out the back... it eliminates an entire tube from the Angel design, but in the case of the Bushmaster & Impulse creates an ugly tub for batteries and boards...

The Bushmaster proved that the speed of an Angel could be made much more affordable. In fact it was the platform for Bob Long's first entry into the gun market, the original Defiant.

I will give you one other thing. The Intimidator & Impulse drove the "gun of the week" craze. I remember a time when it seemed like everybody and their mom had a "custom" Timmy or Impulse at the field. Nowadays it seems to me like the EGO and ION have filled this role, again a high-end gun and an affordable tournament entry...

[slade]

I would MUCH rather shoot an AGD "ion" than a smart parts "ion" I quote the ion because I'm referring to a gun similar to it (low price, somewhat high performance).

what interests me is, what would happen if AGD released an ion knockoff that was of LOWER quality? im willing to bet many people would still buy it, and AOers would insist it is better.

One more thing, I really dont care about the specific crap like saying an Angel has a 4 way or a 14 way. Obviously Im not a market scientist or anything, Im just bored out of my mind. This place is like jail. Take what I say worth a grain of salt when it comes to anything factual, since technically I quit following the paintball scene a couple years ago when those agg (insert a bunch of expletives here) punks came out. Im merely commenting on where Im seeing the industry has gone since then.

its just that if you know how it works, if someone built a 14 way they would either need it for something very complicated, or theyd just be an idiot. probably the ladder.

[minimag03]

I agree with you on some points but the thing is that you don't seem to have your facts straight.

In fact it was the platform for Bob Long's first entry into the gun market, the original Defiant.

There is no need to talk about such misc. details. If there were I would point out that Bob Long first made cockers before he made Defiants.

[slade]

There is no need to talk about such misc. details. If there were I would point out that Bob Long first made cockers before he made Defiants.

...hey, didnt you trade for my 97 bob long cocker? how is she?

[minimag03]

I sold her to a sailor in Hawaii (really). I regret doing it now since the left feed is so rare.

[sanity]

There are two sides to every story. Yes, these big conglomos have brought a lot to the sport. But they have also done considerable damage. These are facts. The controversy is whether or not the damage outweighs the advantages.

Mmmm imagine where technology would be today if the government had never broken up AT&T-Bell Labs...

Monopolies can accomplish things others cannot, but the consumer pays for it.