DIY PneuMags & PTP

[Loguzzzzzz]

I looked into it a little further, US patents are now granted for 20 years from the date of filing, a design patent will only last 14 years....

I guess we will have to wait another 7-1/2 years since this sounds like a design patent.

Oh Well!!

[rabidchihauhau]

21 years AND given the amount of time that the application has been in review, it would be well within PTP's interests to request an 'extension' and I believe strongly that it would be gtranted.

RR - no one here is really using their noggins when it comes to the analysis of the claims; they're not realizing that those 'holes' can be most readily exploited by the original patent holder...

[RRfireblade]

RR - no one here is really using their noggins when it comes to the analysis of the claims; they're not realizing that those 'holes' can be most readily exploited by the original patent holder...

Yeah I see that. It's cool though, at least I learned a bunch during the discussion. Got pretty quiet in here pretty fast huh ?

[rabidchihauhau]

yep...too quiet...

[Jimbud]

Yeah I see that. It's cool though, at least I learned a bunch during the discussion. Got pretty quiet in here pretty fast huh ?

Why keep going over the same points?

You have your opinions I have mine.

And that's all that the are...opinions.

We could discuss this forever, but to what end?

Too bad that this didn't get settled years ago. We could all be shooting Pnue frames and arguing about the validity of the Smart Parts patent.

[RRfireblade]

Why keep going over the same points?

You have your opinions I have mine.

And that's all that the are...opinions.

We could discuss this forever, but to what end?

Too bad that this didn't get settled years ago. We could all be shooting Pnue frames and arguing about the validity of the Smart Parts patent.

Uh , think that's what I said back there somewhere.

Wasn't refering to you anyway , mostly to the barrage of info , details and supporting statements I was asked to provide.....and did.

[Lenny]

And now for the THIRD time...

What's the deal with CMI's pneu-framed gun? Where did this fall and how similar were they to "modern" pneu concepts?

Also, that ugly yellow MiniMag with the LPR video that looks ancient; was that all part of the inital Pneumag hype? Or was that an indie project?

[warbeak2099]

You talkin bout this?

G-Force 68-Super

They look stupid and no one bought them. That's what happened. Actually everything except for that disgusting looking frame looks very sleek. Different frame and maybe some more wild milling and it would have sold more. They really didn't market it very well either. Or who knows, maybe PTP stopped them.

[Pneumagger]

That is the worst CNC designing I've EVER seen. I could do better in 15 mins with g codes and a sherline Minimill.

[RRfireblade]

And now for the THIRD time...

What's the deal with CMI's pneu-framed gun? Where did this fall and how similar were they to "modern" pneu concepts?

Also, that ugly yellow MiniMag with the LPR video that looks ancient; was that all part of the inital Pneumag hype? Or was that an indie project?

I don't have an answer for you on either of those , sorry.

[Lenny]

No, 'm talking about the Feildmaster.

Here it is on PBR: http://www.pbreview.com/products/reviews/427/

or this one: http://www.pbreview.com/products/reviews/428/

[kruger]

I havent chimed in on this at all, until now. I have a patent in the works, am looking to get it issued in about six months. NOT paintball related. And, having worked with a patent lawyer trying to get all the leagalese worked out, I discovered, that in the claims, you want to be a indirect as possible in your description. The reason for this, as has been stated, is to be able to cover as much intelectual real-estate as possible. Coupla reasons for this, first, you dont want anybody else taking your idea and making money, and second, you want exclusivity to the market that you are aiming for. The broader the description, the less wiggle room that any potential competitor has. And, the perfect example is the Smart Parts patent. Using their patent, you would think that Smart parts invented the switch and circuit board for paintball guns. Even tho everybody knows that that is not the case, they have goverment certified paperwork to enforce their claim. And, even tho we all know it, I'm gonna say it out loud. The only reason that smart parts, PTP, Dye, ect. ect. is in business, is to "make money" They are not in it to make the players happy, or to make you feel good. They are in it for the money. If these companies dont make a profit, they dont make paintball stuff. PERIOD. And, the only way that they can ensure that they protect their income, investors, and bank debts is to make the patents as broad and far reaching as possible. That is what lawers are for.

It seems that the DW patent and the PTP patent has the pneu-market pretty tied up right now. And it also seems that there is some overlap between the two. That is the patent examiners fault. And there lies the problem. Until the overlap disagreements are clearly resolved (lawers, court) then it is in the best interest of both patent holders to NOT produce anything. Else, one party will have to pay the other party a lic. fee.

Does this sit well with the paintball community? No. Is there anything that we can do about it? No. It does not matter what points are argued and won on this forum, or lost, it is up to the lawers to sort all this out.

But, I must say that this has been one of the most intellectual threads that I have read on any forum. I do look forward to see what happens tho.......

[rabidchihauhau]

actually, I don't think that either company is holding back because of a potential infringement case. I think they're holding back for market reasons.

Here's a glimpse at the future:

so-called "High-end" electronic markers are soon going to be retailing for the following price-points: $750, $500, $250.

Not that we don't have some of that already, but I am here to tell you that the days of the $1200 'must have' electro are gone.

Just as paint eventually found its 'supportable' price point (roughly 2-3 cents per ball), so too will markers find their supportable price point and its not much over $250, which is where we're heading.

The Ion proved that there is a ready market for 'high end' markers at the 250 price point. Other companies - notably WDP and Eclipse - have recently introed their $750 offerings (Angel 1, Etek) and of course, markers like Alien, Promaster, etc alreayd occupy the $500 price point.

See the trend? Sure, there will still be room for super custom versions of name-brand markers, but in less than five years from now, the majority of tournament players and scenario gamers who purchase high-end product will be using a marker that retailed for around $250.

These offering will have all the bells and whistles - high rof, programmable boards, nice styling, aftermarket upgrades.

Where does that leave a pneu-based marker? Basically, without a market.

If the industry can get the 'cost of entry' for paintball down below $500, we'll see a lot of new players. (True, you can do it for that right now, but not if you are a discriminating buyer.)

marker - 250, tank 150, mask, pack, 75, misc - 25

that's where we're heading...

[BigEvil]

Best post ive read in a long time.

[NoForts4Me]

Classic post, rabid. You've nailed the market. The Promaster you mentioned is already in the $250 range, and is a decent gun. I could see it being tough to sell a frame that is $250+ when you can pickup a good gun for that.