DIY PneuMags & PTP

[robnix]

You COULD patent it, but you'd only have 21 yrs of protection.

That link doesn't say that it is impossible to get a patent on a recipe, they just said in general, meaning "usually". There's nothing stopping you from sending in an application, and with the way things are now, you're likelyhood of a grant is higher than ever.

Read the other article I posted:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/food/story/0,,1738630,00.html

But can you copyright a recipe? Could Heston Blumenthal register his roast spiced cod with castelluccio lentils? Or St John's Fergus Henderson his roast bone marrow with parsley salad? No, says Alex Papakyriacou, of intellectual property law firm Briffa. "Case law suggests that reproducing a written recipe in the preparation of a dish is not copyright infringement. The same goes for recipes that have been communicated aurally or by a chef deciphering the ingredients and method involved in the preparation of a recipe by sampling a dish prepared to it."

Nor is it possible to patent a recipe, either in the UK or US, because the organic development of food will never constitute an "inventive step". In short: you will never know definitively where your pizza or prawn noodle originated.

[rabidchihauhau]

well, paintballs are 'food'; considering that ultra-orthodox jews and observant muslims are not allowed to play paintball because they might accidentally ingest non-kosher materials (and just plain coming into contact with them requires all kinds of special cleansing); considering that numerous veterinarians caution against allowing dogs to eat paintballs and considering that all of the contents of a paintball are themselves both edible and utilized in other prepared foods, I'd say it falls under the definition of 'food'.

robnix: the statement you quoted does not really address 'recipe' per se - it addresses the functional equivalents doctrine. The nail is functionally equivalent to the screw in this application, therefore, no patent.

This peach pie recipe is functionally equivalent to other peach pies known to have existed for years, therefore, no patent.

Its not 'RECIPES' - its functional equivalence. Chemical formulations ARE 'recipes' and vice versa; take x amount of this, boil in that, once its set, add these other things...

When cooking, you're 'mixing chemicals' - fructose, lactose, starch, fats, acids, bases, etc.

If you came up with a food recipe that was NOT functionally equivalent to any other existing food preparation method, you most assuredly could receive a patent.

And, I would suggest, the place to find legal opinions on patents is NOT in the press; the reporter who originally wrote that piece probably has less undertanding of patent law than any individual on this site...

If, for example, I came up with a recipe for making apple pie using only kobe beef (near to impossible I know) - you could get a patent for turning beef into fruit.

...and, after just a small amount of research at the PTO, here's one of MANY MANY MANY patented RECIPES for preparing a FOODSTUFF that was GRANTED:

Pat. No. 3,996,390

Based on dry ingredients before adding the liquid ingredients, i.e. juice and milk, the compositions of the present invention typically contain the following range of ingredients expressed in % by weight, the amounts of ingredients being selected so that the total is 100%:

______________________________________ Ingredient % By Weight ______________________________________ Gelatin, type B 15 - 41 CMC 2.5 - 4 Sugar 60 - 81 Acidulent 1.6 - 2.0 ______________________________________

Typically, the finished product to which the acid food juice and milk have been added contains the following range of ingredients expressed in % by weight, the amounts of ingredients being selected so that the total is 100%:

______________________________________ Ingredient % By Weight ______________________________________ Gelatin, type B 1.5 - 4.1 CMC 0.25 - 0.4 Sugar.sup.+ 6 - 10.0 Acidulent 1.6 - 2.0 Milk 40 - 50 Acid food juice 40 - 50 ______________________________________ .sup.+If an artificial sweetener is used, it is present at a level equivalent in sweetening effect to the sugar. As the weight of artificial sweetener will be much less than that of sugar, the relative amounts of

PLEASE note the word INGREDIENTS (not 'chemicals'); please note 'juice and milk', 'sugar', 'gelatin', etc.

Once again - its not enough to read a patent, or even the various rules governing patents (not to mention all of the special findings) without understanding that we are dealing with a very specialized AND complicated area of the law, one which often uses the same words that we do in everyday conversation, but those words don't necessarily have the same common meaning. Unless you really want to get mired in it all, (go read the patent examiners manual - its there for a free download and guaranteed to give many headaches), you're shooting blind when you pull a single paragraph, finding or decision regarding them.

and robnix - here's a quote from the article you provided a link to:

"The following correction was printed in the Guardian's Corrections and clarifications column, Wednesday March 29 2006

We said in the report below that it was not possible to patent a recipe in the UK or US. In fact it is possible, although it would have to be substantially different from anything that had been done before."

[robnix]

Agreed, trusting the press to get this right is a bad idea.

If you came up with a food recipe that was NOT functionally equivalent to any other existing food preparation method, you most assuredly could receive a patent.


If, for example, I came up with a recipe for making apple pie using only kobe beef (near to impossible I know) - you could get a patent for turning beef into fruit.

You've just made a beef pot pie.

...and, after just a small amount of research at the PTO, here's one of MANY MANY MANY patented RECIPES for preparing a FOODSTUFF that was GRANTED:

I found 3389 on patentstorm using the word foodstuff. Reading through them is proof of the issues at the USPTO. Ifound patents for using ice to restrict bacteria growth in food, convection ovens, deep fried food, and grease pans for bbq's. Again though, all of these were methods, not one single patent that I read through contained a specific list of ingredients, with a specific amount of each, and with a specific method of prepering those ingredients. When I refer to a recipe, I mean an exact itemization of the ingredients, and an exact preperation method.

But yes, I'll agree, you can get a patent for a foodstuff.

[rabidchihauhau]

[QUOTE=robnix]Again though, all of these were methods, not one single patent that I read through contained a specific list of ingredients, with a specific amount of each, and with a specific method of prepering those ingredients. When I refer to a recipe, I mean an exact itemization of the ingredients, and an exact preperation method. QUOTE]

...and you won't find such a thing; by its very nature, a patent application for a recipe will include as much wiggle room as is possible. You won't find "remove plastic tray with meal from outer packaging, poke 2 slits approximately 1/2 inch in length in the plastic film cover, microwave on high for 2 minutes in a 5000 wt oven (see time/temp table for other wattage microwaves), stir with a wooden spoon exactly five revolutions, microwave on medium for 5 minutes in a 5000 wt oven, remove from microwave oven and let cool on a heat-resistant surface for precisely 37 seconds, remove plastic film and convey food substances to oral caviity with a spoon and consume"; you'll find "remove from packaging (how?, what?) poke holes in plastic cover (can I just loosen a corner?) microwave on high for 2 minutes (oven temps may vary), stir, microwave on medium for 5 minutes, let cool and serve (to whom? do I leave the plastic film on it?)

Any good 'recipe' patent will offer a full range of mixtures for every ingredient and as many substitutions of ingredients as they can think of: if for apple pie, they'll offer 'seasonings' to include between a pinch and a table spoon of cinnamon, a pinch to a table spoon of salt...the crust can be 'a prepared shell, a graham cracker shell, a traditional pie dough shell, etc., etc.

If for candied yams, it won't specify the 'candy', and will probably note the substitution of sweet potato for yam...

So, to put it another way - there most definately are patents for 'recipes', but as is so often the case, the word 'recipe' in the patent context is not precisely the same thing as a 'recipe' in the cooking context. They're not mutually exclusive, but they do mean slightly different things.

[robnix]

but as is so often the case, the word 'recipe' in the patent context is not precisely the same thing as a 'recipe' in the cooking context. They're not mutually exclusive, but they do mean slightly different things.

Therein lies our differences. It's simply our perspective on things. My background is from catering and fine restaraunts, so I'm most likely a bit myopic in the way that I define certain things. That being said, I learned a lot, and appreciate you and Coolhand taking the time to explain things to me not only in a polite manner, but finding a way for me to understand your point. The intarweb isn't always knows for that.