How to make a non partial Governing body in paintball today

[kruger]

I dont think that you guys "get it". The tourneys are not for the players. The tourneys are for the manufacturers. That is obvious to even the most casual of observers. Why would the manufacturers limit their sales? They wouldn't. The tourneys are all big sales pitches, thats it. There will be no governing body as long as the paintball manufacturers are footing the bill. It is not in their best interest. Super-Uber guns, flashy colorful clothes, boards, drops, barrels, triggers are the masters of the tournement scene. Right now there is no interest from the non-paintball community to involve itself in this "sport". And, they wont because all they see is a bunch of kids playing a game, and cheating to win. Do you think that Chevy, AOL or Hewlett Packard want their name assoicated with a group of arrogant thugs who claim to be professional sportsmen and have to cheat to win? Wake up, it aint gonna happen. Nothing is going to change until the players take control of themselves and their teams and start playing like it is a real sport, and not like its some big brawl. And Smart Parts and all the others really dont want the game cleaned up. Again, not in their best interest. If they were really concerned with the way that the game is played, then they could, and would do something about it. But, as you can see, nothing is being done. Pretty obvious to me, and it should be to you too.

[Chronobreak]

as you can see, nothing is being done. Pretty obvious to me, and it should be to you too.

that is obvious, but my question is basicly if players want such organization what do they have to do or what would be required to make such a thing happen.

players acting more responsible and as better role models fort he sport would help.(which we dont seem to have any today)

how would an organization make $ off of enforcing these rules and not be influenced by biz?
how did the ippa make its $? they say they have ideas but i dont hear anything or see anything...

perhaps a final format for the sport should be chosen(at pro level atleast)
maybe age devisions instead of pro/am/novice

mainly looking for suggestions i guess not a why are we here and who is to blame, but where to go from here

[Aggravated Assault]

Right now there is no interest from the non-paintball community to involve itself in this "sport". And, they wont because all they see is a bunch of kids playing a game, and cheating to win. Do you think that Chevy, AOL or Hewlett Packard want their name assoicated with a group of arrogant thugs who claim to be professional sportsmen and have to cheat to win?

OMG this is truth. Not too long ago the editor of a major p-ball mag went on the record and said that wiping and playing on isn't cheating and "we" need to get over it. Cheater boards are in use - I guess we need to get over that too. Bad Additudes and Foul mouthed ranting from players must not be common tho, he didn't address that....

No wonder any big company wants to touch paintball. This is the reason paintball isn't getting over the hump.

Paintball should take a hint from NA$CAR and draw a line in the sand, but they prolly wont, and for the reasons brought up in the previous post.

It's sad, because it could be done, it would just need a leauge stepping on almost everyones toes to do it. But, in years to come, the sport of paintball would be better for it i'm sure.

[Aggravated Assault]

First thing First

I'll attack this question from the viewpoint: What would it take to make a superior leauge as the standard, not necessarily a blanket body over all. A solid leauge, able to put out a superior product, market it and make it enjoyable for non-players to watch. This would be the path to secure top sponsors and grow. I believe eventually this would have a trickle down effect to align smaller series w/ rules and format.

Before anything starts in creating this "leauge" there would have to be some consensus (sp?) on a few things. ROF would be a good place to start. True semi? uncapped/Capped? Ramping? Come to an agreement.

Take a page from ASA (American speed Assoc.) They can pretty much run whatever car they like but the engine must be a crate motor for that brand. No modifications for the most part......Ok paintball now: Take whatever marker you want, but the marker (assume electro for now) must shoot only in the mode that is legal for the leauge. One way for this to be enforced by the leauge is they supply the board for use. Thats it. Cannot use anything else.

How to actually implement it might differ, but something similar is the only way I see it to address one of the problems - Cheating thru a players equipment/marker.



/to be continued....

[SlartyBartFast]

First off ask yourself this. WHY after twenty years DONT we have a real governing body?
Why did the IPPA really disband or fail?

Simple. Money.

After an organisation reaches a certain size, it can't operate on goodwill and volunteers alone. It requires full-time commitment.

So, the organisation itself has to generate enough money to be self-supporting.

Think NASCAR,NBA, NFL, NHL, MLB work because all the owners love each other and WANT to get along nicely? No.

They work because if push came to shove, no team, player, official, or (minor) sponsor is indispensable.

NASCAR (or F1) can tell manufacturers which parts are leagal and what they're allowed to compete with because the real money is from the fan base and television rights. The manufacturers want to compete for access to the fans, not like paintball where it's the other way around and the series and organisations rely on the manufacturers and teams for their livelyhood.

[Chronobreak]

slartly, but how do we switch it around or attempt to move away from that?

as long as players (knowingly or un) are supporting the current system it doesnt seems like there is any hope at all for change.

[kruger]

Chrono, you bring up a point that I was trying to allude to previously. As long as the players play without honor, there can be no change. As long as the players play in a system owned and driven by sales, there can be no change. The status is balanced right now. Companies are happy and the players aint complaining. Why change? I do understand the need for change, its just that I dont think that is going to happen with things the way that they are right now. The players must force the change. I am not talking about a few threads on some forum some where, I am talking about the players that matter (at least to the companys) and that is the Pro teams and all their little followers. There is a lot of money in the Pros fan base and that is the only thing that the companies understand.............money.

[Aggravated Assault]

another major problem is cheating by wiping,playing on, etc. Paintball has a lot of issues here. and a lot of opinions. If I were to be the one selling paintball as a product to the non-playing public, I think there would be a need to have rules in place that gives the sport a better image in rules enforcement. So what does that mean?

People are going to play on by acccident and on purpose. Just like other sports, is it a "foul"? A minor or major penality? Everyone seems to have different ideas here..

Wiping is another matter. It happens. Should this be treated the same or so harshly no one would want to even think about it?

Therin lies the problem, there are different camps that want to treat these issues differently. What would have to be figured out is: To make a product the (Non-playing) PUBLIC would be interested in, making the difference between "cheating" and a "foul" is very important. What we tolerate, what we penalize and what we do not allow at all.

Then how would the sport be percieved by the choces made?

[hitech]

To make a product the (Non-playing) PUBLIC would be interested in...

That is the problem. I don't think you are going to get those people interested.

[Jeffy-CanCon]

That is the problem. I don't think you are going to get those people interested.

Correct. Not without a real paradigm change. Paintball in its current form is profitable because the players spend small fortunes on gear and paint. But what the spectators generally see is a game that is loud, short and painfully slow. There is almost no movement in speedball beyond the break, and the end-game. Firepower forces a much more cautious and defensive style than was seen in the early days of competitive paintball. If you want to encourage people to watch the game, you have to make it a longer event, and with more visually-exciting movement that spectators can follow. X-Ball is halfway there, as I understand it.

[Aggravated Assault]

That is the problem. I don't think you are going to get those people interested.

That just might be the truth, but nevertheless, that would have to be the goal of any sucessfull "leauge." Determine somehow what would have to change to make it more accessable and enjoyable to the public. One could determine thats its near-impossible, but lets say not.

A major issue, possibly the biggest, is how we are presenting ourselves as a community and a group. Any Leauge setting out to conquer the world, or to at least try, needs a code of accepted conduct, before, during and after the games. And woe be to anyone who crosses that line. no exceptions.

Our most high profile events are quite possibly the major tournaments, NPPL, PSP. Maybe some big games or big scenario, but I think most would agree the Major Tourneys. This is where I think as a whole we have fallen on our faces. I have been to several events over the years and from my own experience, things aren't really that much different than what I saw at my first in 97' or 98'. Bad attitudes, grown ups acting like a bunch of babies, cheating, fighting, playing on, yelling at the refs, wiping, foul language, bonus balls, no sportsmanship, you name it. Somebody try and say this dosen't go on today.

There would have to be a zero tolerence policy on all that behavior. You shoot someone from the deadbox (on national tv) you are thrown out (X) number of games. Abuse a ref in any way - gone. Ranting, raving and/or cussing and making a scene - sit down for a few games. Fighting? suspended. (insert very bad behavior here) = thrown out of tourney or series. And go from there..

The inmates have run the asylum for too long and look where its got us.

[hitech]

The inmates have run the asylum for too long...

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Aggravated Assault]

Other areas that would need some thought: Reffing. Making the game fair for all teams. I know paintball has had problems here. On the major circut nowadays - I have no Idea if it's better or not. Haven't seen enough lately. What I think I do know is, theres still a perception that the Judging is usually sub-par. Whether this is thru incopetence, Bias, or what, I'm thinking that it still exists or at least is perceived to. Heck it's talked about in the mags and players are always complaing...Wait a minute, Players are always doing that. Strtike that one

I think it's on the right track with some of the leauges using referees who are just that: referees. There needs to ba good system of training and certification that is accepted as the best. A good system where you, as a ref work your way up thru smaller events and/or divisions to get the needed experience. While I don't have first hand knowledge of how, say the PSP handles reffing and if they are going a good job or not, that seems similar to a system I have wanted to see for years.

Anyway, for any leauge to be legit, the Juges or Referees who enforce the game rules on the field need to be seen as fair and unbiased, competent in their training, above and apart from any drama with the games and teams, and professional in their manner on and off the field. Are we there yet?

[RRfireblade]

Paintball is run by paintball distributors for the sole reason of making themselves more money.

The fees are steep , the payback is laughable.....but....there is no alternative so your stuck.

You'd have to steal the whole shibang out from under them.



A new governing body would have to take the Tourny scene by storm and at the same time , be able to support itself (at least at first) , offer extremely enticing Tourny prizes/Money and make it seem like if you have a Team THIS is where you need to be playing.

You'd have to pick up enough Pro teams right off the bat that the others would follow like sheep. Then....if sponsers and other finacial supporters start to fall inline , you would have the chance to make changes that stick and force manufacturers and distibutors to comply.

It's a tall task that very few if any , are willing to take on.

[Aggravated Assault]

You'd have to steal the whole shibang out from under them.

A new governing body would have to take the Tourny scene by storm and at the same time, be able to support itself (at least at first) , offer extremely enticing Tourny prizes/Money and make it seem like if you have a Team THIS is where you need to be playing.

Exactly. But I'll backtrack one extra step. The things I threw out in earlier posts were leading up to a similar conclusion. I wanted to establish that, before anything could get out of the "good idea" stage and to the planning stage, those main issues would have to be addressed. Addressed in ways to make the game better from a fan and a players view.

Ok, now everybody imagine we have this killer plan and outline for the BEST, I mean BEST leauge EVEEERRRR!!!!!


About 25 seconds after that we would hit THE big wall. I feel its bigger than the one fireblade brought up. Even with the best of everything, would this sport of paintball, that we all love, interest enough of the non playing public to: Attend tournaments, watch it on tv, buy licensed products, support/buy from sponsors & advertisers, etc, etc. Can we make some kind of brand identity? Get people to actually follow and support teams?
Oh, and do this in a way that it could support itself and not beholden to industry giants; Who, based on their own interests or bottom line, may want to go in different directions in detrement to real progress.

That is the real question. No matter how hard we try, IS it possible to package this game into a product someone will buy? Capitalism 101.

Do we have a product that anybody wants to buy.....?